Making Combat "Meaningful" in POE2, a 10y POE1 Vet View

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PaintMaster#2396 написал:

Guy that never socketed voidstone, never killed a single boss call himself a poe veteran, lol

As a POE VETERAN i tell you, the OP is right.

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rob_korn#1745 написал:

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Gordyne#2944 написал:

I think the problem is mostly the mindset.

Elden Ring proved to me that a difficult game can be played enjoyed even by unexperienced players because in that game you are "expected to die a lot".

It is still extremely popular and successful.
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Mindset may be an issue, but using Elden Ring as a justification here is just silly imho.

People can go and like the difficulty there, step by step, achieving progress boss after boss. But that doesn't mean much for PoE.
Most people will play Elden Ring ONCE, with both feelings of achievement and relief at the same time : "That was great, I'm finally done".

You can't transpose that over PoE. You're supposed to come back every new season from 0 again. And for me, that's the elephant in the room, that is surprisingly not covered that much.
PoE2 has been fun like a story game, but doing it again is already getting old. That's not right.

I'm convinced it's actually an issue for a lot of people while they don't even realize it.

This doesn't make much sense, in my opinion...

No, no one forces you to come back. If you play Elden Ring as if it were the only game that exists, you will get tired of starting from 0 too. Any game that you play endlessly will have the same "problem", which is mostly you not playing other games to alleviate the repetitiveness.

You don't need to play every league that comes out. You can play stardard league if you don't want your characters getting deleted and start from 0.
I get that it is EA and probably chars WILL get deleted, but it is EA.

So, it is a partly a problem of mindset, "subculture", whathever.

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Kraythax#2592 написал:

Meaningful combat at all encounters is incompatible with the A in ARPG.

What the heck have you smoked. Open any wiki page of the Souls games and you see that "ARPG" right in the first paragraph. And I tell you in those games almost any encounter matters.

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Gordyne#2944 написал:

No, no one forces you to come back.[...]

Noone forces you, indeed.
But I think you missed that coming back for the leagues is PoE business model.
They are bringing new shiny toys, for player to discover, new economy, new challenges. With that comes new MTX bringing the money.

With all respect, the faster ppl put that down their mind, the better for everyone. This has nothing to do with Elden Ring model, and standard player is not the focus, at all.

Yep +1

Its impossible to have "meaningful combat" in a game that's all about power fantasy. And if they insist on doing that with this game then it should not be called an ARPG, because its missing the "action" part completely LMAO, just call it a cheap imitation of dark souls/elden ring. Because that's what it is.

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rob_korn#1745 написал:

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Gordyne#2944 написал:

No, no one forces you to come back.[...]

Noone forces you, indeed.
But I think you missed that coming back for the leagues is PoE business model.
They are bringing new shiny toys, for player to discover, new economy, new challenges. With that comes new MTX bringing the money.

With all respect, the faster ppl put that down their mind, the better for everyone. This has nothing to do with Elden Ring model, and standard player is not the focus, at all.

Not exactly. I bet PoE 1 and 2 attracts many new players each league. So no PoE2 doesn't need to attract the same players every league. Some go, some stay, some go away for a year or two and some go away forever. But many new players come to see what PoE is about.

Again, mindset. If anyone insists on playing every league, they have to come to terms that the campaign part will be repetitive. That's why you have several classes and builds to play. Try something new to mitigate the repetitiveness.

Even in PoE 1 where the campaign is considerably shorter people want to skip it. There is no way to "fix it" unless they procedurally generate everything which is impossible.

If you allow people to skip campaign, people will start asking for low tiers maps to be skippable too because they are easy and "filler" content.

It is a sick mindset. GGG can try and think of smart ways to make the campaign more engaging for replays but it can only go so far.

So, ofc you are correct, it is a different business model than Elden Ring, but even in this model the playerbase has some unreasonable and sometimes outright pathologic expectations.

Not sure if The Ascent is considered a classic ARPG, but that game did it right. Different style twin stick shooter, but the combat was definitely meaningful as you had to combine dodge roll and crouching behind cover. Different weapons also were needed for different enemy types.

Bump

Also Last Epoch sits at 100-135k players peak

POE2 sits at 85-100k

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CovidPatientZero#0332 написал:

Not sure if The Ascent is considered a classic ARPG, but that game did it right. Different style twin stick shooter, but the combat was definitely meaningful as you had to combine dodge roll and crouching behind cover. Different weapons also were needed for different enemy types.

That is not an ARPG. That is a different game completely. The argument being used by some on the thread is akin to "FIFA 15 should employ more mechanics like The Witcher 3." You arent comparing apples and oranges. You are comparing apples and airplane engines.

The very premise of the post is that if you make combat "meaningful" outside of bosses its no longer an ARPG and is, as some have proposed, an isometric elden ring with a map system.

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Gordyne#2944 написал:

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Mental gymnastic 10/10.
It is exactly what it is, regarless of new or old player. The focus is to get people back or for the first time in new league, because this is how they maximize the profits. It is by design.

Noone is expected to play for the full duration of a league, but the new stuff is there to build hype and excitment enducing purchase every time as much as possible. Again, that's EXACTLY what it is. That's not a mindset, that's the business model.

You bring the campaign skip that I never mentioned ever, and that is irrelevant with the model again.
People asking for skip is just the normal friction of a live service game, where people always ask as much as possible, while devs try to give up as little as possible. This is the fate of a Live service game. Did I mention PoE is a live service game ? Repetitiveness is a central part of the equation.

Again, with all respect, the faster ppl put that down their mind, the better for everyone.

Now, before you answer again "not exactly", here is some bibliography for you :

Designing Path of Exile to Be Played Forever

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https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3739803 написал:

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3739803

It is highly recommended that you play in the new economy due to the extensive number of balance changes.

we do recommend starting over and getting the full new experience in the Dawn of the Hunt leagues

Future leagues will usually add exclusive content.

on release weekend we expect to launch the new mystery box and cool microtransactions, some of which are themed around the Huntress!