Making Combat "Meaningful" in POE2, a 10y POE1 Vet View

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Hoelun#0576 написал:

I assume Jonathan must have pivoted soon after Elden Ring's release and souls games becoming the mainstream, but they just slapped on that style of combat without designing the game for soulslike type of combat from the ground up. Thats probably why there is a lot of disconnect between the player and the rest of the game. The zones, the monsters, the loot were all designed for a POE1 style game, while players are slogging through having a weird half baked souls like experience.

Quite a reasonable hypothesis and a bad move by GGG/TenCent. Because to make POE be souls like you have to get rid of random loot because that only works if you drop A LOT of loot. You have to get rid of monster packs and reduce to single enemies or duos. You have to completely change the encounter dynnamics. Souls like games work not because they are "hard", they work because things are tuned around specific item discovery and specific progression. ARPGs dropping lots of loot (theoretically) require you to kill lots of monsters, that or make one mob drop a truckload of gear. And if you turned POE2 into that its no longer an ARPG and hence my original thesis.

Guy that never socketed voidstone, never killed a single boss call himself a poe veteran, lol

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PaintMaster#2396 написал:

Guy that never socketed voidstone, never killed a single boss call himself a poe veteran, lol

You know nothing about me. I have three accounts in POE and have funded several of my kids accounts. Stop assuming you know people. And I will point out that all you did is an ad-hominem attack which only proves my point because you couldn't attack the post on content.

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Kraythax#2592 написал:

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PaintMaster#2396 написал:

Guy that never socketed voidstone, never killed a single boss call himself a poe veteran, lol

You know nothing about me. I have three accounts in POE and have funded several of my kids accounts. Stop assuming you know people. And I will point out that all you did is an ad-hominem attack which only proves my point because you couldn't attack the post on content.

Oh so poe player become poe veteran after they spend some amount on mtx, got it.

I didn't really read past that "as poe veteran", like you want to give opinion, sure give it, but when you call yourself "poe veteran" to give your opinion more weight, is kinda cringe.

For GGG as devs, every opinion should be same, either if it's new player or old player, after all both of them are one person.

While nothing bad if they would give more weight to opinion of actually experienced player that understand mechanics, understand the game, understand economy, drops, crafting, skills, and all.

You know none of that when you say that act bosses in poe1 "require considerable skill", no they're not, even in hc ssf.

Even someone like me that played mostly sc trade, managed to clear campaign in hc ssf ruthless, where it is actually kind of difficult, because of much less gear drops, and lack of movement skills and often no supports.

But in regular mode, cmon, no bosses in poe1 are even slightly difficult except for maven, sirus, uber elder, where you actually need to move, avoid stuff, know mechanics. Everything else is just punching bags.

I haven't really seen anyone who actually is good player call themselves "poe veteran", it's always someone who just spent time and money in poe, while often having less experience and skill that many of players that started recently.

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PaintMaster#2396 написал:

Oh so poe player become poe veteran after they spend some amount on mtx, got it.

I never said that. You did. You just love the personal attacks but see you are just some random joe on the internet and I dont care what you think of me. I just pointed out that you know nothing about me whatsoever and are making all kinds of assumptions.

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PaintMaster#2396 написал:

I didn't really read past that "as poe veteran", like you want to give opinion, sure give it, but when you call yourself "poe veteran" to give your opinion more weight, is kinda cringe.

Whatever ... it's my post and you didn't have to reply. You admit that you didn't read it but got triggered because I had the audacity to call myself a POE vet and so you lashed out. /shrug

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PaintMaster#2396 написал:

For GGG as devs, every opinion should be same, either if it's new player or old player, after all both of them are one person.

Nope. Thats not the way business works. You give priority to customers that have value. Streamers have value because they are your marketing department. Heavy MTX players have value because they finance the product.

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PaintMaster#2396 написал:

While nothing bad if they would give more weight to opinion of actually experienced player that understand mechanics, understand the game, understand economy, drops, crafting, skills, and all.

Clearly a LOT of people agree with me. Inn fact the bulk of the ARPG community agree with me. You are, I'm afraid, in the minority.

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PaintMaster#2396 написал:

You know none of that when you say that act bosses in poe1 "require considerable skill", no they're not, even in hc ssf.

Perhaps you have thousands of hours to perfect your technique or you are just the gamer god of all that can kill everything with a level 1 toothpick in less than a second. Us normal people will have to do the best we can.

Most people don't play POE in HC mode because they know they will die and don't want to give up their char. Most people don't even play SSF because they have neither the time nor patience to farm gear, they just want to have fun. Most people have been killed by a boss in the game.

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PaintMaster#2396 написал:

Even someone like me that played mostly sc trade, managed to clear campaign in hc ssf ruthless, where it is actually kind of difficult, because of much less gear drops, and lack of movement skills and often no supports.

Yeah we already covered this. You are a gamer god, star basketball player, millionaire entrepreneur and a few other things. We get it. Unfortunately us normies will just have to do the best we can.

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PaintMaster#2396 написал:

But in regular mode, cmon, no bosses in poe1 are even slightly difficult except for maven, sirus, uber elder, where you actually need to move, avoid stuff, know mechanics. Everything else is just punching bags.

I haven't really seen anyone who actually is good player call themselves "poe veteran", it's always someone who just spent time and money in poe, while often having less experience and skill that many of players that started recently.

I have seen lots of people that are good call themselves veterans. Perhaps you aren't looking? Kripparian and Zizaran both share similar opinions as me and they are FAR better than my old butt will ever be at POE. You present yourself as some sort of authority when, in fact, you are just speaking for yourself and based on the Steam Reviews, Reddit posts and so on you are CLEARLY in a very very small minority. In the very title I expressed that this is my opinion. But it is also an opinion that is in the VAST MAJORITY.

But I guess in your mind all those people just suck?

Thanks for the bump though.

I think the problem is mostly the mindset.

Elden Ring proved to me that a difficult game can be played enjoyed even by unexperienced players because in that game you are "expected to die a lot".

It is still extremely popular and successful.

You can't deny that over the years it seems that ARPG players started correlating dying with shame, or something like that.

So it seems that they don't want to die, and for that, the enemies can't really fight back or you need quick ways of being overpowered... Anything it takes to trivialize enemies.

PoE 2 needs better balance, for sure, but the playerbase mindset definitely IS a problem.

And this argument that PoE 1 players funded PoE 2?

Pure BS.

You payed money in PoE 1 and you enjoyed the items PoE 1 gave you for that money. You can still enjoy everything you bought in PoE 1 IN PoE 1. So no, they didn't just "took your money", you paid for cosmetics and stash tabs and you got them. You can still use them. The rest is just pure entitlement like a spoiled child.

PoE 2 can attract new players that prefer the design choice of not not allowing for stupidly overpowered characters being the norm, and those players can ALSO pay for things they want in PoE2 to help fund the game.

Jonathan needs to scrap his vision. It is killing the game.

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Gordyne#2944 написал:

I think the problem is mostly the mindset.

Elden Ring proved to me that a difficult game can be played enjoyed even by unexperienced players because in that game you are "expected to die a lot".

It is still extremely popular and successful.
[...]

Mindset may be an issue, but using Elden Ring as a justification here is just silly imho.

People can go and like the difficulty there, step by step, achieving progress boss after boss. But that doesn't mean much for PoE.
Most people will play Elden Ring ONCE, with both feelings of achievement and relief at the same time : "That was great, I'm finally done".

You can't transpose that over PoE. You're supposed to come back every new season from 0 again. And for me, that's the elephant in the room, that is surprisingly not covered that much.
PoE2 has been fun like a story game, but doing it again is already getting old. That's not right.

I'm convinced it's actually an issue for a lot of people while they don't even realize it.

So basically OP just got bullied by the river hags, cried a river about how bad POE2 and barking at everyone who tells that game is fine. Lmao

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Perhaps you have thousands of hours to perfect your technique or you are just the gamer god of all that can kill everything with a level 1 toothpick in less than a second. Us normal people will have to do the best we can.

Most people don't play POE in HC mode because they know they will die and don't want to give up their char. Most people don't even play SSF because they have neither the time nor patience to farm gear, they just want to have fun. Most people have been killed by a boss in the game.

You don't need thousands of hours to be able to beat CAMPAIGN bosses in non ruthless, tens of hours at most, more if you have extremely bad mechanical skill, in the game where basically all early/mid game bosses are beaten by running around boss.

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Yeah we already covered this. You are a gamer god, star basketball player, millionaire entrepreneur and a few other things. We get it. Unfortunately us normies will just have to do the best we can.

Mocking over this is cringe. I'm maybe below average at best compare to people that actually play the game. PoE1 need very little mechanical skill to beat it.

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I have seen lots of people that are good call themselves veterans. Perhaps you aren't looking? Kripparian and Zizaran both share similar opinions as me and they are FAR better than my old butt will ever be at POE. You present yourself as some sort of authority when, in fact, you are just speaking for yourself and based on the Steam Reviews, Reddit posts and so on you are CLEARLY in a very very small minority. In the very title I expressed that this is my opinion. But it is also an opinion that is in the VAST MAJORITY.

Could miss that Kripp or Ziz actually call themselves poe veterans, or maybe they don't because they don't need to.

Game average 70-100k players, so there's likely 200-300k active players just on steam that play daily considering time zones. Who knows how much more in standalone client. That's very very small minority that play the game.

Also what does it have to do with what i said? I didn't really gave opinions about the game, but you for some reason say that my opinion this or that. I literally said 0 opinions about poe.

Maybe about bosses in poe1 being easy, that's simply a fact, not opinion. Having character with 2-3mil dps in current days, which is nothing, is enough to beat all non-uber bosses. Actually hard content is juiced t17 maps and uber bosses, where you need decent gear, but again, all bosses except of few are just dps check. It's not opinion, its fact.

Reddit is literally echo chamber, nothing more, not just about poe, about everything. PoE redditors sit there commenting 24/7 giving opinions while most of them barely played.

Steam is no better.

A lot of people want poe2 to be poe2, not reskinned poe1. A lot of people don't need divine drops from every mob to enjoy game.

Main reason people play poe1 and poe2 is character progression. Majority of old poe1 players are skilled and experienced enough to max their characters in couple days from league start, then they quit.

And now is my actual opinion on poe2 about loot situation:

There should be more stuff dropping, that's all. Wisps on rares seems to have no effect at all, wisped and not wisped rares drop same stuff.

It affect ssf players a lot more, while on trade, you can farm currency with other ways than picking up exalts or divines, like picking up gear, and using orbs on good gear.

And because of that huge difference between trade and ssf, and how much different currency is used in each, it's not possible to balance game to make it fair for both trade and ssf. Only way will be having separate balance for ssf, and make ssf permanent choice with no option to migrate to trade.

Now you have my opinion you can mock on like you did.