XP LOSS - I actually have a good suggestion

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cavexs#4102 написал:

You can progress to around level 95 with one death every 1-2 maps with omens. And until 89-90 without. You choose your path so last levels should be least impactful. Why would you want to take away the challenge of the last 5 Levels from people that are trying to actually play the game?

Because there is no challenge. That's an illusion. Exp loss just wastes your time and makes you go backwards in progression, which is bad game design.


But sure, I'm fine with it if they make it optional, then people can play with it on or off, whichever they prefer. Like Warmode in WoW for example, one of the best things they ever did because "world pvp" had gotten so toxic.

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Toforto#2372 написал:

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cavexs#4102 написал:

You can progress to around level 95 with one death every 1-2 maps with omens. And until 89-90 without. You choose your path so last levels should be least impactful. Why would you want to take away the challenge of the last 5 Levels from people that are trying to actually play the game?

Because there is no challenge. That's an illusion. Exp loss just wastes your time and makes you go backwards in progression, which is bad game design.


But sure, I'm fine with it if they make it optional, then people can play with it on or off, whichever they prefer. Like Warmode in WoW for example, one of the best things they ever did because "world pvp" had gotten so toxic.

I don't even disagree with the progression part. I am also not saying it is a flawless solution.

I say we don't have a better one. Either we end the season 2 days in like in D3 or we add an infinite part (same example). I stopped playing D3 because I was one of a handful people in the top100 HC ladder being paragon 300 or less in the first 3 seasons surrounded by 500+. The power spike was way bigger than the difference 90-100 here and it became even bigger after that. However if nothing is required to get to level 100 there is also no ambition to grind gear or participate in the market exchange. It will be mostly SSF after a few days in the league. I really think removing the xp penalty might kill the game long run however I am fine with some nerfs on the xp curve to make level 100 more realistic for ambitious players within, lets say, 2-3 weeks as I am also fine accepting that level 97 or something like that is a statement on it's own.

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cavexs#4102 написал:

However if nothing is required to get to level 100 there is also no ambition to grind gear or participate in the market exchange. It will be mostly SSF after a few days in the league. I really think removing the xp penalty might kill the game long run however I am fine with some nerfs on the xp curve to make level 100 more realistic for ambitious players within, lets say, 2-3 weeks as I am also fine accepting that level 97 or something like that is a statement on it's own.

From what I understand the experience required to reach 100 is staggering. That is not nothing.

The only people that will do it are the same people who would do it now with close to 0 deaths. Game won't change one bit for them.

It will only become less annoying for everyone else.

Agree on the idea of a toggle. Make Softcore, Normal and Hardcore leagues. Anyone can play whatever gives them a sense of achievement or enjoyment.

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AlisVeritas#3919 написал:

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cavexs#4102 написал:

However if nothing is required to get to level 100 there is also no ambition to grind gear or participate in the market exchange. It will be mostly SSF after a few days in the league. I really think removing the xp penalty might kill the game long run however I am fine with some nerfs on the xp curve to make level 100 more realistic for ambitious players within, lets say, 2-3 weeks as I am also fine accepting that level 97 or something like that is a statement on it's own.

From what I understand the experience required to reach 100 is staggering. That is not nothing.

The only people that will do it are the same people who would do it now with close to 0 deaths. Game won't change one bit for them.

It will only become less annoying for everyone else.

Agree on the idea of a toggle. Make Softcore, Normal and Hardcore leagues. Anyone can play whatever gives them a sense of achievement or enjoyment.

Yes multiple leagues with increasing degeneracy is the way forwards, that way you keep the causals happy on softcore, the hardcore happy on the hard servers and everyone in between can go on the standard servers. It would solve a lot of the design problems GGG are facing trying to please both crowds at the same time!

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Kodavor#1200 написал:

Oh yeah ? How many of those who play, reach 100 to get all the skill points ?

That has nothing to do with what we're saying. Right now level 90 is the equivalent of level 100 because the game is designed for a level 90 character, so the 10 extra points are a bonus. If you had level 100 as the baseline, but could go higher, say to 110 just as hard as it is to go from 90 to 100, it would be the same situation. Players on this forum would demand to change it, to make 110 a guaranteed handout if they put enough time coins into the machine. You've changed nothing.

That tells me you don't even care about XP loss, you care about easy level 100, or easy 110, whatever the cap is.

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Anal_Rek#2753 написал:

Yes multiple leagues with increasing degeneracy is the way forwards, that way you keep the causals happy on softcore, the hardcore happy on the hard servers and everyone in between can go on the standard servers. It would solve a lot of the design problems GGG are facing trying to please both crowds at the same time!

Exactly, having it just be a toggle would satisfy the most amount of players. Instead of having the game's design be so divisive among the playerbase and people quitting because they died and lost 4 hours of exp.

It's the most simple solution and it would work just fine: on/off toggle in the settings for exp penalty. Or while creating a character. Let people play the game how they want to, instead of trying to make them conform to some kind of "vision". That's how you make a popular game.

Why in a world we even need XP loss in softcore?

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dissonance90#3107 написал:

Why in a world we even need XP loss in softcore?

I've been wondering the same thing for years. It's so weird to punish people for playing softcore when exp loss doesn't even exist in hardcore because you lose the char to standard. Like what kind of sense does that make?? Softcore is supposed to be the easiest gamemode, the "default". Anything after it like Hardcore is meant for people who want punishing gameplay and "difficulty".

It literally doesn't make any sense for softcore to have such death penalties.

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Toforto#2372 написал:

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dissonance90#3107 написал:

Why in a world we even need XP loss in softcore?

I've been wondering the same thing for years. It's so weird to punish people for playing softcore when exp loss doesn't even exist in hardcore because you lose the char to standard. Like what kind of sense does that make?? Softcore is supposed to be the easiest gamemode, the "default". Anything after it like Hardcore is meant for people who want punishing gameplay and "difficulty".

It literally doesn't make any sense for softcore to have such death penalties.

This is the ONLY reason I have stopped playing in 0.1 with my Monk after level 92. Just imagine. Attrition just because XP loss. I've played 300+ hrs in 0.1

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Summoner#7705 написал:

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Kodavor#1200 написал:

Oh yeah ? How many of those who play, reach 100 to get all the skill points ?

That has nothing to do with what we're saying. Right now level 90 is the equivalent of level 100 because the game is designed for a level 90 character, so the 10 extra points are a bonus. If you had level 100 as the baseline, but could go higher, say to 110 just as hard as it is to go from 90 to 100, it would be the same situation. Players on this forum would demand to change it, to make 110 a guaranteed handout if they put enough time coins into the machine. You've changed nothing.

That tells me you don't even care about XP loss, you care about easy level 100, or easy 110, whatever the cap is.

Why dangle it in front of all then? Why TF dangle the Exp bar? If the game is for lvl 90s then REMOVE the exp bar at lvl 90! Otherwise its there to tell you that you are SHIT every time you die, regardless of it being earned or not. PoE2 had retarded oneshots from unpredictable angles unless you treat EVERY MOB AS A BOSS

If you want to punish yourself then you should have an OPTIONAL way to do it instead of FORCING it onto ALL. Absolute majority DO NOT CARE about challenges!
They just want to enjoy the game fully. You cant take a piss for 90% and let the remaining 10% leak in your pants and call it a good design!

I do not believe for a second that devs are SO LIMITED that they cant come up with anything thats better than a system from 1997!