Make playing the game the best way to advance

If anything, the crafting mats should simply drop more often, the rare ones could just drop more often from bosses, so it would make sense to actually do bosses (lol)

Right now the whole game design relies too much on the player created economy of "farm div, buy shit for div"

That aint fun at all. Last Epochs crafting by this point blows POE out of the water in terms of fun, and LEs crafting is as simple as it can get (im saying that POE crafting can be more interesting, but the problem is that often the sane choice is not to craft but instead trade craft mats for actual gear on the market, which is just so ass backwards silly in terms of game design).

Instead of dropping a div from a boss, just drop a rare craft mat, sheesh, how complex of an idea is that ??

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Henide#3803 написал:

If anything, the crafting mats should simply drop more often, the rare ones could just drop more often from bosses, so it would make sense to actually do bosses (lol)

You don't understand, it's "vision", so bosses could frop same or lower drop than rare mobs and not significant xp. increase, because anyway meta players kill them for seconds

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Hellbringer#3048 написал:

You have successfully completely avoided the entire argument. Playing the game and "getting better" does not fix the the 1/10,000,000+ chance that a good item drops.

If by "getting better", you mean RMT or playing the market, I don't really want to play market simulator or a game that depends on spending money to cheat it as I KNOW TONS of people do. It's a sign of bad design. When things are too rare, people just go buy them, which is why markets in games are stupid because it always devolves into who has the fattest wallet. If people's time is respected and devs properly code loot, then people wouldn't feel the need to go spend to get them. As a bonus you aren't supporting a bot economy from the 3rd world.

ARPG are click fests where you level up and theoretically get loot. Mobs are just loot pinatas and a mechanism of distribution for that. The tuning of it is what makes the game fun, boring, or tedious. This game right now leans too far into tedious. Pretending there is a ton of skill involved instead of RNG is disingenuous. You want a skill based experience you play a FPS.

This game does have the most interactive gameplay though, and the core systems are really fun, which is why I want it to be better.

I play POE for like 10 years and never used RMT, i was able to do any content. You are just wrong. PoE2 for example lacks endgame stuff because everything is so easy achievable. Especially in trade league good items are that cheap that you can easily gear up with a few divines and you are strong enough to defeat everything. Sorry, but your point is completely invalid. If you struggle, it is on you. Read guides to improve instead of complaining. Making the game easier by increasing currency drops even more would just make the situation a lot worse.

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FipsDieGrille#2655 написал:

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Hellbringer#3048 написал:

You have successfully completely avoided the entire argument. Playing the game and "getting better" does not fix the the 1/10,000,000+ chance that a good item drops.

If by "getting better", you mean RMT or playing the market, I don't really want to play market simulator or a game that depends on spending money to cheat it as I KNOW TONS of people do. It's a sign of bad design. When things are too rare, people just go buy them, which is why markets in games are stupid because it always devolves into who has the fattest wallet. If people's time is respected and devs properly code loot, then people wouldn't feel the need to go spend to get them. As a bonus you aren't supporting a bot economy from the 3rd world.

ARPG are click fests where you level up and theoretically get loot. Mobs are just loot pinatas and a mechanism of distribution for that. The tuning of it is what makes the game fun, boring, or tedious. This game right now leans too far into tedious. Pretending there is a ton of skill involved instead of RNG is disingenuous. You want a skill based experience you play a FPS.

This game does have the most interactive gameplay though, and the core systems are really fun, which is why I want it to be better.

I play POE for like 10 years and never used RMT, i was able to do any content. You are just wrong. PoE2 for example lacks endgame stuff because everything is so easy achievable. Especially in trade league good items are that cheap that you can easily gear up with a few divines and you are strong enough to defeat everything. Sorry, but your point is completely invalid. If you struggle, it is on you. Read guides to improve instead of complaining. Making the game easier by increasing currency drops even more would just make the situation a lot worse.

Your "ive played the game for 10 years" argument from authority is a logical fallacy. Because you say you haven't doesnt mean you havent. Because you haven't doesn't mean others dont.

Easily achievable is different for everyone, because you play xxx hours a season doesn't mean others have that same ability, or desire.

"you are just wrong" is a stupid statement. You follow that up by saying "play the market", which was my argument from the beginning. I didn't say I "struggle", I said I wanted better loot, to improve my enjoyment of the game. I don't know how you can say that I am wrong and my point, which you still haven't argued against, that drop rates are too low and good items have a literal multiple millions of chance of dropping with desired affixes and tiers. That's a fact, and it isn't "completely invalid" because of your opinion or playtime. That's also a fact. Also, my proposed solution, because of tryhards like you, was to make a checkmark in SSF to improve my game, which would have 0 bearing on your game. So I am not sure why you are here arguing against something that has no effect on you, other than "certain people's" epeen and superiority complex.

I mean "the vision" is a running joke with this game. I'm trying to get it fixed for those of us that have a different vision of a better game, without interfering with the game as others like yourself apparently enjoy. But please keep coming back asserting you know everything about game design, pure gold.

The thing is, this game has a playerbase that wants endgame items while also not wanting to live in this game 24/7 or be top 0.1%.

You can absolutely play with trash gear. It is harder, as it should be in an ARPG, but the game is not unplayable without perfectly crafted rares and a mirror in every pocket. The problem is that the whole genre naturally drifts toward pay-to-win in the broad sense – not just real money, but in-game currency. If the main answer to any progression question is "just get more divs," then of course people start seeing the game as a wallet or grind check instead of a loot hunt.

At least PoE1 has more layers of progression. Gems gaining XP gives you something to build up over time. In PoE2 almost everything meaningful is just gated behind currency. Character levels are basically the only thing you cannot swipe a card of divines at.

What I also liked about PoE1 was gear socket links. You could actively play around with that system, look for items that did not have all sockets linked, or only had specific small links. That gave you a lot more variations in how you set up your skills and supports, instead of everything just defaulting to "max links or nothing."

Once you are around 90, you can technically wear anything and do anything – the only real gate left is how rich you are.

And yes, it gets boring if you are not willing to try new stuff. I hate grind, so my way to enjoy the game is simple: I can roll a new character in Standard, use the pile of gold I already have, buy decent gear from vendors or other players, and just play. I skip the "beat your head into the same map 200 times for 0.3% upgrade" phase and actually enjoy the campaign and early mapping. If I run out of gold, I do a handful of maps, get a few hundred thousand again, and that is enough to gear a leveling character. That is a perfectly valid way to play.

Standard market is a circus, sure. Flippers flipping, prices inflating, then crashing for a couple of weeks after league merge when the new flood of items comes in, then back to the same nonsense. That part is not great, but it is also just how an open trade economy behaves when left alone for long enough.

What really bothers me in PoE2 is the lack of long-term goals. You can set yourself a goal like "hit 1 mirror" or "stack 1000 divs," but that is not exactly exciting for everyone. Level 100 can feel satisfying, but for a casual player that is a months-long project. With gems not having XP, you lose another layer of that "slow, satisfying build-up" feeling. A lot of it ends up boiling down to spreadsheeting currency instead of feeling like your character itself is growing in interesting ways.

In the end, if you enjoy the playstyle, the grind, and the market, good for you. But it is also fair for people to say "this progression model doesn’t feel rewarding or fun to me," without being told they are simply wrong.

PS: SSF having higher drop rates will never happen as long as you can migrate that character and all of its loot into trade. If SSF loot was juiced and you could just push a button to bring that gear over, it would be a permanent advantage factory. That is exactly why GGG keeps it equal.

I mean, if you learn how to endgame you will get drops...

It is not really that difficult.

And you can't ask GGG to give loot without effort.

Because then people who put effort would explode the game.

And btw putting yourself a goal 1000 div, this is pretty neat goal that can take you far...

You should do what you suggested.

I want to add that "playing the game" is not equal to the sequence bellow:
1. having to load a zone;
2. walk to talk to a NPC;
3. wait it's animation trigger another dialog;
4. click to talk again;
5. walk back to the safezone;
6. talk to another NPC;
7. then traverse to the next chapter;

And there are more of this that could be easily incorporated into the map while exploring and not separated into different memory chunks.

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Hellbringer#3048 написал:

Your "ive played the game for 10 years" argument from authority is a logical fallacy. Because you say you haven't doesnt mean you havent. Because you haven't doesn't mean others dont.

Easily achievable is different for everyone, because you play xxx hours a season doesn't mean others have that same ability, or desire.

"you are just wrong" is a stupid statement. You follow that up by saying "play the market", which was my argument from the beginning. I didn't say I "struggle", I said I wanted better loot, to improve my enjoyment of the game. I don't know how you can say that I am wrong and my point, which you still haven't argued against, that drop rates are too low and good items have a literal multiple millions of chance of dropping with desired affixes and tiers. That's a fact, and it isn't "completely invalid" because of your opinion or playtime. That's also a fact. Also, my proposed solution, because of tryhards like you, was to make a checkmark in SSF to improve my game, which would have 0 bearing on your game. So I am not sure why you are here arguing against something that has no effect on you, other than "certain people's" epeen and superiority complex.

I mean "the vision" is a running joke with this game. I'm trying to get it fixed for those of us that have a different vision of a better game, without interfering with the game as others like yourself apparently enjoy. But please keep coming back asserting you know everything about game design, pure gold.

What do i care that people use RMT and cheat themselves? Your whole point is that the loot is not good enough, my answer is: It is. you are doing it wrong. Also in SSF you can easily achieve all the endgame goals. I did this, too. Then you are just calling me a tryhard by having no idea how much hours i spent into the game and so on. You just refuse to work on yourself and your game knowledge and skill and ask for better items. The problem with raising loots in SSF is obvious, they want it to be able to switch from SSF to the normal league and therefore cannot do this. There is pros and cons to this obviously but that is their take. You would have to question that one first. But as said before, there is no need for better loot just because you want to have it easier. One advice: take the challenge, you will feel much better when you get it yourself than when it is handed to you easily

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FipsDieGrille#2655 написал:

What do i care that people use RMT and cheat themselves? Your whole point is that the loot is not good enough, my answer is: It is. you are doing it wrong. Also in SSF you can easily achieve all the endgame goals. I did this, too. Then you are just calling me a tryhard by having no idea how much hours i spent into the game and so on. You just refuse to work on yourself and your game knowledge and skill and ask for better items. The problem with raising loots in SSF is obvious, they want it to be able to switch from SSF to the normal league and therefore cannot do this. There is pros and cons to this obviously but that is their take. You would have to question that one first. But as said before, there is no need for better loot just because you want to have it easier. One advice: take the challenge, you will feel much better when you get it yourself than when it is handed to you easily

To be fair, hinekora lock drop is too bad for any league in any part. I can farm in poe1 500+ div(not pure), gain league 40/40, drop hh or other valuable t0, and don't get at least one hinekora locks in 9/10 leagues.
Same with ssf, i closed all except ubers and didn't get any lock.
And i'm that lucky guy, who played ~10 years and didn't get any ground mirror, even if i juiced maxed in very profitable on currency leagues like affliction.

I don't have interest to minmax build in steps where currency which i need to use isn't dropping, it only had sense for me to play if i would done rmt only.

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Jyrlep#4788 написал:

The thing is, this game has a playerbase that wants endgame items while also not wanting to live in this game 24/7 or be top 0.1%.

You can absolutely play with trash gear. It is harder, as it should be in an ARPG, but the game is not unplayable without perfectly crafted rares and a mirror in every pocket. The problem is that the whole genre naturally drifts toward pay-to-win in the broad sense – not just real money, but in-game currency. If the main answer to any progression question is "just get more divs," then of course people start seeing the game as a wallet or grind check instead of a loot hunt.

Once you are around 90, you can technically wear anything and do anything – the only real gate left is how rich you are.

And yes, it gets boring if you are not willing to try new stuff. I hate grind, so my way to enjoy the game is simple: I can roll a new character in Standard, use the pile of gold I already have, buy decent gear from vendors or other players, and just play. I skip the "beat your head into the same map 200 times for 0.3% upgrade" phase and actually enjoy the campaign and early mapping. If

In the end, if you enjoy the playstyle, the grind, and the market, good for you. But it is also fair for people to say "this progression model doesn’t feel rewarding or fun to me," without being told they are simply wrong.

PS: SSF having higher drop rates will never happen as long as you can migrate that character and all of its loot into trade. If SSF loot was juiced and you could just push a button to bring that gear over, it would be a permanent advantage factory. That is exactly why GGG keeps it equal.

Great post. I clipped a bit of it out to reply to the stuff left.

As you mention, many people have jobs, family, and life and would rather not blow up hundreds of maps for an incrementally small upgrade... if any at all. I was gifted some decent gear by a leaving player. Without that, I've found basically nothing even worth reselling in 200+hours since Oct 24 (2 lvl 85 and a couple at ~10). Sometimes I think "oh this might be good for someone" and it's selling for an exalt. I know part of that is the lateness of the season, but I enjoy finding good drops, which seem to be woefully absent here, at least in my (is 200h limited? probably in this game) experience.

Easy enough to make SSF players with improved drops stuck SSF (or just deleted) when season ends.