Why are people calling PoE P2W with the incoming Challenges?

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johnKeys написал:

Novalisk,1) regardless of my choice of words, buying orbs with real money is P2W because it gives you an achievement others won't necessarily have. therefore an advantage.
it's also required for this achievement, if you are extremely unlucky.

Your definition of P2W is hazy, at best. I would call this entirely false, as it bases itself on the same fringe logic that paying your little brother a candy bar so his lvl 80 maruader can carry you through Merciless is P2W. With no direct, in game benefit to paying money to the creators of the game, there is no way a game can be considered P2W. At best, your comments here are expressing "Pay to Boast", as all it would do is get you an achievement, which serves no in-game benefit itself.

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2) it's circular RNG: you need Exalted-worthy stuff to buy Exalted Orbs via trade. you need Unique-worthy currency to buy uniques via trade. both are bound to RNG, and therefore both have the strong potential to not be at your disposal, no matter how hard you try.
besides, I did say my hypothetical no-lifer plays self-found solo - so he can only use drops and vendor recipes. uniques and 25% of the orbs don't have vendor recipes.
and Orb Of Chance on whites is "double RNG": obtain orb and white. use orb on white.

I will agree with you on your "no-lifer, self-found" examples... which is telling me that they are not encouraging RNG, but encouraging market interaction.

On the other hand, I will not agree with you that it is a case of circular RNG. My luck in game has been far, far worse than my friends who play this game, yet I am far more wealthy in game than they are. How? Because whereas I never find exalts, and they do once in a while, I use the crappy alteration shards I get to make orbs, which I sell up to buy alchs, which I sell up to buy gcps, which I sell up to buy exalts. Then when I have exalts, instead of using them on my crappy equipment, I sell them to get better equipment, that allows my characters to progress farther, which gets me more, better equipment so I can go back and make better characters to run through the game again and get more alts... to alchs... to start the chain again.

When you allow the market into your analysis, your entire argument breaks down. That's why you had to narrow your example down to self-found solo.

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3) yes, RMT will always exist - but it's just wrong to give them such a huge, obvious opening to pour-in from.
also, if you hoard currency and uniques by doing achievements with different accounts - well then, you're doing achievements. you're accomplishing crazy feats of skill and determination more than once. that my friend, is something not to be taken lightly. it's the opposite of exploiting the game when you "earn your exploits" with hard work.

As we clearly both don't agree on part 1, I'll let my other arguments stand.

With part 2, yes, it is clear that doing achievements is doing achievements. We got that much already.

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iamsamsara написал:

johnkeys you pop up in every post on these boards with some sort of gripe about how this or that is unfair and GGG is the evil monkey behind all of the worlds conspiracies, maybe it's time to move on to another game? I mean I am worried about your health, your blood pressure must be through the roof, your arteries tighter than a farmer's daughter's ...... you get the point

It always amazes me, how almost any time I present a real problem and explain it in detail - someone comes up and goes all-out offence, clings to two words out of a thousand-word post, and says he's "worried about my health".
and most of them don't bother looking at my posting history. which doesn't stop them from boldly going "you pop up in every post on these boards with some sort of gripe..."

yes, maybe I was wrong to add in the "knowingly" part about GGG - and I'm sorry about that.
but as a player in Beta I feel it's part of my "job" to point out the not-so-good things, and things with a potential to become not-so-good, in my opinion.
and yes, I can and do provide positive feedback as well.

you don't agree, Iamsamsara? well then please take some time and explain why, just like Shippal and Novalisk did.
by all means disagree, but do so in a respectful and civil manner.

people keep saying how the community wasn't a troll-fest back in Closed Beta, so maybe I should have started playing then?
too late for that now I guess.

On a side note :

The fact that you can buy orbs from other sites has nothing to do with Path being P2W or not.

I mean, if I decide to pay 100$ to a Chinese kid so he beat Mario bros 3 for me, doesn't make Mario bros 3 P2W...

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KingGloborx написал:

On a side note :

The fact that you can buy orbs from other sites has nothing to do with Path being P2W or not.

I mean, if I decide to pay 100$ to a Chinese kid so he beat Mario bros 3 for me, doesn't make Mario bros 3 P2W...

simple answer to a simple analogy:

do you need luck to beat Mario bros 3?
do you need skill to obtain orbs in Path Of Exile?

PoE wasn't and isn't currently P2W - but it sure will be when the "get all orbs" achievement comes in, and gives the RMT buyers an unfair advantage over unlucky legit players like myself.

at which point it really won't matter if you pay GGG or some Chinese slave-labour bastard.
no wait - it does. I'd rather pay GGG.


and @Shippal regarding your trade for orbs example: assuming rares and blues in PoE aren't RNG (and they sure are) - vendoring them gives alteration shards (other shards too, but let's focus on alts).
20 shards make 1 orb of alteration - which according to your claim can be stacked, then vendored/sold all the way up to Exalted.
but, remind me how many Alteration Orbs exactly = 1 Exalted? and how many people would accept a stash-full of alts as payment for their orb? and is there another way besides dumb luck to get it? a recipe perhaps?
no. you stack alts.
boom - your 4 months are over.
RMT buyers and super-lucky players got the achievement. you didn't.
are they better in this game than you? because Ladder says they are. some of them even got a T-shirt.

nothing wrong with that, right?

Is this for real? People are mad because you need more stash tabs for 90 unique challenge? You can fit 24 chest pieces in one tab. Or 36x Helm/boots/gloves.

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THEHORNEDRAT написал:

Wow. QQing over a T-shirt prize.

algoQQwhinebots gets more hilarious.

Lucky for us Golds and Diamonds, we already wonhave our shirts. ^^

But i want another one :D.

This isn't a grey area.. There's absolutely nothing wrong with this, just a bunch of whining children.

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johnKeys написал:

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KingGloborx написал:

On a side note :

The fact that you can buy orbs from other sites has nothing to do with Path being P2W or not.

I mean, if I decide to pay 100$ to a Chinese kid so he beat Mario bros 3 for me, doesn't make Mario bros 3 P2W...

simple answer to a simple analogy:

do you need luck to beat Mario bros 3?
do you need skill to obtain orbs in Path Of Exile?

PoE wasn't and isn't currently P2W - but it sure will be when the "get all orbs" achievement comes in, and gives the RMT buyers an unfair advantage over unlucky legit players like myself.

at which point it really won't matter if you pay GGG or some Chinese slave-labour bastard.
no wait - it does. I'd rather pay GGG.


and @Shippal regarding your trade for orbs example: assuming rares and blues in PoE aren't RNG (and they sure are) - vendoring them gives alteration shards (other shards too, but let's focus on alts).
20 shards make 1 orb of alteration - which according to your claim can be stacked, then vendored/sold all the way up to Exalted.
but, remind me how many Alteration Orbs exactly = 1 Exalted? and how many people would accept a stash-full of alts as payment for their orb? and is there another way besides dumb luck to get it? a recipe perhaps?
no. you stack alts.
boom - your 4 months are over.
RMT buyers and super-lucky players got the achievement. you didn't.
are they better in this game than you? because Ladder says they are. some of them even got a T-shirt.

nothing wrong with that, right?

Sounds exactly like the RMAH cry threads in D3. I think all games with community's are just full of whiny crybabies, STFU and play the game for your enjoyment.

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johnKeys написал:

idonteven.jpg and other stuff

So PoE is a P2W game when people decide to buy stuff from RMT? Then every game out there is P2W. Eating healthy and getting enough sleep is also important for your gaming performance, i guess i also P2W cause i live on the countryside where all the good stuff is available.

I also have a gold tag in the forums so people most of the time assume i am not a total idiot, i guess thats also P2W.

Lol its really awesome how much trash posts an announcement about achievements is creating.

Edit: They lie on the ground, just pick em up.

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sintflut2012 написал:

Скрытый текст

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johnKeys написал:

idonteven.jpg and other stuff

So PoE is a P2W game when people decide to buy stuff from RMT? Then every game out there is P2W. Eating healthy and getting enough sleep is also important for your gaming performance, i guess i also P2W cause i live on the countryside where all the good stuff is available.

I also have a gold tag in the forums so people most of the time assume i am not a total idiot, i guess thats also P2W.

Lol its really awesome how much trash posts an announcement about achievements is creating.

Edit:

They lie on the ground, just pick em up.

getting tired of this to be honest.

which part of

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PoE wasn't and isn't currently P2W - but it sure will be when the "get all orbs" achievement comes in, and gives the RMT buyers an unfair advantage over unlucky legit players like myself.

didn't you understand?

did you bother reading the f***ing post before posting a reply? how about my previous posts?
and going back into my posting history to find out Exalted Orbs don't f***ing lie on the ground for me? not even one?

never mind.
I give up, before I'll lose all my remaining brain cells to pointless arguments with trolls.
you win.