So melee still sucks, can we get a comment from GGG?

Oh no wonder
U have a single shadow in standard
Not even a single melee char? And here u r preaching?
The pt I was making is that melee still sux compared to ranged
Most of us agree on dat
Learn to understand

I dont understand why he didn't Enfeeble or use a Granite. A combination of both would have prevented this death 100%. Push it too hard, pay the consequences.

"

kazkyzah написал:

Oh no wonder
U have a single shadow in standard
Not even a single melee char? And here u r preaching?
The pt I was making is that melee still sux compared to ranged
Most of us agree on dat
Learn to understand

Melee is harder to play than ranged for sure. It has highest skill requirement and skill cap. Is that wrong it inself? Nope, I like that there is a hard class to play due to high mechanical requirements (i.e. clicking correctly and precisely)


So to refresh my memory I did following experiment:

2356 hp, 473 armor, 654 evade (basically almost no armor and evade)
-6% fire resist, 44% cold resist, 31% lightning resist
2728 dps dual strike
lv18 decoy totem + 17% quality
No Granite Flask, no temporal chain nor enfeeble
+26% run speed increase
Standard League against Merciless Kole.

Results was: it is hard but very much doable. If you get ground slammed, you die.

You can avoid every ground slam if you have enough movement speed and reflexes. An important reminder is that you run sideways and not backwards, due to the shape of ground slam.

The decoy totem will take some aggro, but Kole can switch aggro very quickly even if decoy totem is not dead. I.e. he first does ground slam towards totem without killing it, then immidietely after he targets you with another ground slam.

Besides the Blitzcrank hook and the Ground Slam, Kole can also punch you at melee range. You have no chance of avoiding those punches and they took about 1/3 of ones health at the stats I gave. With enough dps and lifeleech, you should be able to recover the hp easily between the punches.

It is my conclusion that if Kole is given too much attack speed bonus, you have no chance as a real melee (i.e. not ground slam, Lightning Strike or other long range melee) to consistently avoid the Ground Slams. This means that is likely that Koles is not consistently doable by melee who get 1-hit by a successful Ground Slam in Turbo or Onslaught.

I think this boss is very well designed for melee. It is a challenge indeed under the condition that your character won't be able to survive one ground slam hit.

Ranged do have a much easier time dealing with him, due to the limited range by the only dangerous skill Kole has: the Ground Slam. To compensate for this, GGG either has to make all ranged builds inferior in damage to melee builds or they modify the Kole Ground Slam range so that it has insane range: i.e. make the risk equal or give melee a strong reward for the risk they take.

The problem if anything is not the melee, the problem is the ranged if they don't have enough dps disadvantages compared to melee.

"

kazkyzah написал:

Oh no wonder
U have a single shadow in standard
Not even a single melee char? And here u r preaching?
The pt I was making is that melee still sux compared to ranged
Most of us agree on dat
Learn to understand

Shadow can be played as melee, and I play it as melee. It is the only character on this account which I've bothered to level past 80.

"

dandan88 написал:

I dont understand why he didn't Enfeeble or use a Granite. A combination of both would have prevented this death 100%. Push it too hard, pay the consequences.

yep. He even said they were pushing the dps at an expense of defense. They had done a boss of a lower level than their current content, and decided they could start face rolling with double offensive curses. Kripp called out Kole, his party asked him if he was sure and that Kole was going to be tough. He did not heed his party, went in pure offensive, and died to an unexpected push from Kole.

He was dodging the hits, but looks like he got caught by Kole ignoring the totems and coming around the obstacles for that slam. And then it is a crit.

Not the worst death I have seen, and really pretty avoidable. We all know by now to not try and tank big slam moves. To defensively curse monster that have big slam moves, and to put your game face on when fighting monsters with big slam moves. "Kripp was not prepared". To steal a line from a blind guy.

"

kazkyzah написал:

The problem if anything is not the melee, the problem is the ranged if they don't have enough dps disadvantages compared to melee.

Agreed. Nerf all ranged specs into the Stone Age, and leave melee as-is. This will leave the melee players without grounds to complain, and prevent the entire game from becoming a faceroll like most every other ARPG. It's the only way GGG...

Kripp wasn't playing a melee, nor was his build terribly tanky at the time.

"

LeninGHOLA написал:

Kripp wasn't playing a melee, nor was his build terribly tanky at the time.

That's the whole point, he wasn't playing melee. If he was, he would have died about 11 times by that time.

Wasn't tanky? At lvl 69 do you have 3.6K HP, 5K armor after the patch?

Here are a few problems with ranged vs melee that I see right now:

1. AI's are easy to abuse with ranged attacks. Melee will get hit, while ranged can flee. Many people say they don't even bother building melee characters due to this.

2. Ranged attacks generally do more AoE damage than melee attacks. In most games ranged dps is significantly lower than melee dps because ranged units are able to fire 2-3 shots before enemies reach them.

3. There are better support gems for ranged attacks vs melee attacks.

4. Ranged users can gain equal if not better survival compared to melee users. There needs to be melee weapon specific survival nodes or mixed survival + damage nodes.

I play Elemental Cyclone build and with like +60% increased AoE range, Master of Arena and +18% Movement Speed I just roll large triangles around Kole and he misses with slam and hook.

My templar is like 2K HP, 16K armor and Mercy Kole still oneshots me sometimes through Enfeeble.

Instead of buffing melee damage, they should've just add % Physical Damage Rediction to each notable melee passive (and maybe a tiny $ to small melee passives). That solves melee spikes problem (if you care to put some points into it), creates another form of damage mitigation and increases varianve of viable builds (always wanted that weapon master from D&D).