Time does NOT equal difficulty

just because something is a different type of difficulty doesn't make it not a difficulty.

time constraints are very common form of difficulty in fact...

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ultrahiangle написал:

just because something is a different type of difficulty doesn't make it not a difficulty.

time constraints are very common form of difficulty in fact...

challenging is not necessarily difficult..

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AintCare написал:

the most difficult exams had no time limit...

Give them a time limit, and then they're more difficult.

What is going on here is that people are confusing "time investment" with a "timed challenge." The first is what the OP is talking about, the ability to very slowly erode content through attrition, which isn't the same thing as that content being difficult. The latter is something like a race, whose key feature is that it doesn't reward time investment, and instead actively discourages time investment as much as possible, forcing players to tackle non-eroded (or only partially eroded) content, increasing difficulty.

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AintCare написал:

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ultrahiangle написал:

just because something is a different type of difficulty doesn't make it not a difficulty.

time constraints are very common form of difficulty in fact...

challenging is not necessarily difficult..

you can't be serious, anyways you can believe what you like.

Time investment and difficulty are two different things, that's certainly true. However, it's also a characteristic of RPGs (and therefore ARPGs by extension) that time investment can replace skill through various forms of character growth- items, abilities, and levels. Player skill and character power are both related and somewhat interchangeable, but character power is almost wholly a function of time investment.

There is a knowledge component to character building, but since this is a multiplayer online game anybody can (and probably should if they intend to play competitively) look up a cookie cutter build to substitute that element of skill.

One way to think of it is that the "Action" part of the game requires and develops skill, the "RPG" part diminishes the impact of that skill and replaces it with time-based growth instead. If the developers wanted the game to be more skill-based, they would focus on developing the tactics of combat and the evolution of strategic play- "action" things. By investing most of their efforts in growing the item diversity, passive builds, and experience grinders they instead demonstrate a different objective.

I have been seen criticizing GGG's skill design in other topics because there's no way to address the tactics of combat- the skill part of the game- without giving the player appropriate tools. I'm not sure if I ever explained that before. But that's why I critique that part of the game so heavily. Hopefully 1.0 will finally bring some real progress on this front because I'm getting tired of being disappointed with every new skill gem added to the game.

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CanHasPants написал:

I dunno.. I'm still convinced that if Scrotie ever designed a game, I'd play it.

Yep, I would too.

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Mythicpoe написал:

You convey your messages as if you speak for everyone.
PoE is fine the way it is. Go play a different game, Scrot.

The problem with taking this approach is that the game won't get any better. If you never take a critical eye to things, you are just going to stagnate. It isn't ideal to simply respond with "Game is fine, get lost."
We should be discussing these things, to figure out if there are indeed problems that could be addressed. That way the game can grow and become better than it is.

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ultrahiangle написал:

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AintCare написал:

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ultrahiangle написал:

races prove otherwise

its a time challenge not a difficulty challenge... two separate things... its like eating hot dogs.. its not difficult, but its a challenge to eat one in 5sec.. or 20 in one minute... yet eating hot dogs is not difficult

reaching so hard.

you would say it is not difficult to finish in top tier every race? you are kidding yourself. (this is for 1-3 hour races that is)

It's not reaching at all. The challenge comes form other competitors, not from the content. You think Nascar would be a challenge if there was only one car on the track? For the guy that wins race leagues it is not a challenge at all. He's probably done it so many times that he does it by reflex. Don't get me wrong that speed is a skill that takes time to develop but that still doesn't make the content challenging; it make the other players challenging. If anything all that practice makes the content easier.

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ultrahiangle написал:

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AintCare написал:

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ultrahiangle написал:

just because something is a different type of difficulty doesn't make it not a difficulty.

time constraints are very common form of difficulty in fact...

challenging is not necessarily difficult..

you can't be serious, anyways you can believe what you like.

Actually he is right, Challenge and difficulty are two different things and you can a difficulty with out a challenge. Take the aforementioned hot dog eating contest example. It is difficult to eat 20 hot dogs in one minute. it how is not challenging.

Something that is simply difficult is not easy because of something simple like a logistical constraint. How do you get that many hot dogs inside an average human stomach? It takes time to stretch the human stomach out to be able to do it. Nothing more. there is no special skill, rare talent involved. Just keep over eating till you can do it. Anyone can do it if they really want to, ergo no challenge.

something that is a challenge is something that puts you off your game, something that can not be eventually completed through simple repetition. A moving target if you will. One of the things that makes PoE and games like it Challenging is that the maps change in every zone every time you load a new area. It's never the same twice. There for you can never learn the maps, memorize where the exit is, and zerg your way there. Even the most skilled players have to fight there way through hoards of trash mobs poking around in the dark, maybe even going the wrong and having to double back, to find the door / quest item / boss.

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ScrotieMcB написал:

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AintCare написал:

the most difficult exams had no time limit...

Give them a time limit, and then they're more difficult.

What is going on here is that people are confusing "time investment" with a "timed challenge." The first is what the OP is talking about, the ability to very slowly erode content through attrition, which isn't the same thing as that content being difficult. The latter is something like a race, whose key feature is that it doesn't reward time investment, and instead actively discourages time investment as much as possible, forcing players to tackle non-eroded (or only partially eroded) content, increasing difficulty.

Well put.

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Perspikacity написал:

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hoya написал:

i think you spelled perspicacity wrong there

Yes, yes I did. It's a subtle joke. I misspelled a word that means intelligent or smart. It's suppose to be Ironic. I guess it's a little to subtle since no one seems to get it but me.

I get it. You spelled difficulty wrong in the thread title because it's a difficult word to spell. ha!