Gating XP and progress behind RNG

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DirkAustin написал:

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andkamen написал:

there is still a lot more content to be released. The characters are simply not meant to be leveled to 90++.

That being said sustaining high map pools is a lot easier then what it used to be in the previous leagues so you guys should be glad its only been getting easier.

/thread

No, not /thread. If GGG is concerned with people leveling too fast, then decrease the exp gained from high-level maps, but still allow access to the content, so people can actually challenge themselves with tougher monsters.

I have no idea why you guys think grinding low-level content is even close to fun when you have level 85+ characters who are clearly capable of running tougher content.

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andkamen написал:

That being said sustaining high map pools is a lot easier then what it used to be in the previous leagues

"A lot easier" is still really not that easy to sustain. Much like how a 1000% of 0.0000001% is still a really small fucking number. If players can still run out of a 30+ map pool, when they roll 90%IIQ on every single fucking map, there's something wrong with the RNG-gating.

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andkamen написал:

so you guys should be glad its only been getting easier.

During the last state of exile podcast, Chris said that he isn't happy about how so many high level maps are dropping currently. Which implies map drop rates will not be getting buffed, but rather, nerfed.

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Zanixx написал:

Its gated begind both.

You need to be able to run the 70+ maps to get the 74+ maps etc. You also need the luck to get those maps. Chris confirmed he doesnt want people to be able to constantly maintain a high-end map pool. Making the best/highest maps rare makes them more special.

I think frustration really kicks in when you consider the cost of mapping and the fact some people don't play for fun, they want level 100.

Well yes, it is behind both, but difficulty is a 5% part of it, and that's because map mods increase the map drop chance (most likely, we can't even tell it for sure due to the excessive RNG in the map drops).

Yeah well, your argument is valid with players in 70-80 lvl area, or to say a bit more precisely, with players that have mediocre builds and gear.
Anyone who has half a decent build with nice gear is able to run 78 maps, at least without the most dangerous mods, the better the build/gear is, the faster one finishes the map.

Chris doesn't want people to engage harder content because the economy would suffer, simple as that. That was the easiest way to do it, and it's working like a charm.
If the content wouldn't be gated behind luck, one aspect of economy would be lost - no more maps trading.

Or is the reason something else, why he wants people to get less experience because they were unlucky, or less challenging content because of luck.
When someone looks at the "hardcore ARPG", he would immediately think something like this: "Oh man, can't wait to fight all those hard monsters all day long when I finish my build, it will be super exciting".

That's where frustration kicks in, not in your poor claim.
Are you one of those who are saying what's fun and what's not fun for others? Rhetorical question, you clearly are.

Sure, some can now claim: "You can roll yourself a hard 66 map". And that's true, but that costs and provides no progression.

Gating is virtually non-existent in Ambush. GGG should nerf meep drops a bit imo.

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DirkAustin написал:

I have no problem with getting to maps. Maybe its just you and a bunch of others. Have more chars and you solve all your problems, this isnt WoW where 1 char is all you should have.

Who has a problem getting to maps? By the time one kills Dominus he has some maps, some Piety farming and you'll be sitting on 10+ maps.

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Zanixx написал:

If the content wouldn't be gated behind luck, one aspect of economy would be lost - no more maps trading.

Honestly, map trading is the dumbest shit I have ever had the pleasure of experiencing in an RPG. I understand the aspect of trading items, but trading access to content? It's simply absurd.

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tinko92 написал:

When someone looks at the "hardcore ARPG", he would immediately think something like this: "Oh man, can't wait to fight all those hard monsters all day long when I finish my build, it will be super exciting".

Exactly. You dump hundreds of hours into perfecting a character for "end-game". Except, when you get to end-game, you get told that you're not lucky enough to even experience the end-game. So players are stuck grinding low-level areas for the majority of their time. So, what was the point of maxing out your character?

It's called a soft cap... and it's essential for games like this. Players decide for themselves when a character is "done". You don't have to continue leveling past any given point. Call it level 85. Call it 90. It's up to you.

The whole point of a soft cap is that you never expect to see an end to the progression, but that there's no real reward left for progressing further.

If you were to make leveling up "routine"... it would be expected. They would have to design content specifically for level 100 characters. No thanks. Having one character of each class at level 100 in HC is a goal for a lifetime of play (for me). It's so distant that it's completely unreasonable to assume I'll ever complete it. We need holy grails to chase. Impossible quests. They know this and will never make leveling to 100 routine.

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Shagsbeard написал:

It's called a soft cap... and it's essential for games like this. Players decide for themselves when a character is "done". You don't have to continue leveling past any given point. Call it level 85. Call it 90. It's up to you.

The whole point of a soft cap is that you never expect to see an end to the progression, but that there's no real reward left for progressing further.

If you were to make leveling up "routine"... it would be expected. They would have to design content specifically for level 100 characters. No thanks. Having one character of each class at level 100 in HC is a goal for a lifetime of play (for me). It's so distant that it's completely unreasonable to assume I'll ever complete it. We need holy grails to chase. Impossible quests. They know this and will never make leveling to 100 routine.

Show me another game (RPG) where end-game content is this heavily gated by luck. Out of all the games I've played, end-game content is nearly always available to the player. "Available" =/= easy.

End-game content can be available 24/7 in certain games, but only a certain fraction of players will have ever attempted/completed it, because the difficulty is so damn high. And that's my point: difficulty itself should be enough of a gate. RNG is just artificial.