Gating XP and progress behind RNG

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Shagsbeard написал:

It's called a soft cap... and it's essential for games like this. Players decide for themselves when a character is "done". You don't have to continue leveling past any given point. Call it level 85. Call it 90. It's up to you.

The whole point of a soft cap is that you never expect to see an end to the progression, but that there's no real reward left for progressing further.

If you were to make leveling up "routine"... it would be expected. They would have to design content specifically for level 100 characters. No thanks. Having one character of each class at level 100 in HC is a goal for a lifetime of play (for me). It's so distant that it's completely unreasonable to assume I'll ever complete it. We need holy grails to chase. Impossible quests. They know this and will never make leveling to 100 routine.

May I ask, why are people constantly bound to extremities?

If the situation wasn't like it is now, if the content is gated behind difficulty, it would automatically make leveling a routine?

Nice try, it really was a nice try, but no.

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tinko92 написал:

That's where frustration kicks in, not in your poor claim.
Are you one of those who are saying what's fun and what's not fun for others? Rhetorical question, you clearly are.

Sure, some can now claim: "You can roll yourself a hard 66 map". And that's true, but that costs and provides no progression.

I'm sorry, is this aimed at me?! Why so much aggression....

I laughed at the first paragraph above... sigh. Grow-up.

Anyway... I'm not here to argue against your points. Lots of people think the same (albeit a minority IMO) but we clearly have some differences when we play.

Side Note: I don't think mapping is perfect and lots could be done to improve them.

Firstly, I get excited when a high level map drops. Its cool to FINALLY see that 78 or whatever drop. If they dropped more (Im not saying you are calling for them the fall from the sky) then they need to find a delicate place as I don't want to lose that excitement.

Secondly, more content is coming so even if they didnt change anything, hopefully we will all be pleased soon. I know from your posts that I've seen, that you tend to complain about everything you can. I can't remember the last time I saw a post where you praised GGG however, I am also not your stalker ;) so who knows!
Perhaps you need a break (im not trying to wind you up here or 'tell' you what to do). Perhaps you have ran sooooooooooooo many low level maps that you can't stand to run them, even for that 1-3% experience, ever.

I have friends who trade all their maps with vendor to get higher ones. Some of them don't even run a single 66 and then they wonder why they have no map pool by the time they hit the mid-70's. Trust me, run enough 6x's and you get your map pool. Maybe not 300 78's but plenty to be getting on with.

Ultimately, this game is about loot AND character progression. In Poe, they've done a good job making sure that if you aren't getting one, you are probably getting the other.

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rrtson написал:

stuff

All you need to explode your map pool is running level 73ish maps until you get a Cartographers Strongbox. Roll that sucker up with +items, and +3-5 chest level (may take a few chaos to get it). Open, clear, and wade through the resulting pile of maps. Just one box, rolled up properly, can have upwards of 15 maps inside...and with the +chest level, you're likely to get several that are 75-78.

Honestly, I've never had an issue keeping my high level map stocks in ambush, thanks to Cart-Boxes.

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phrazz написал:

^I agree.

I just feel that the hill is too steap to climb. Think I've ran about 50 lvl73 maps this week, all with 40+ IIQ - didn't see ONE 74 map. Think I've ran about 40-50 corrupted zones this week, NO midnight fragment.

It's not hard at all, 73 maps are easy. The zones are easy. It's just time, time, time, time. And time. Time? Yes, time. TIME!

Make maps HARDER and the XP gain better. Risk->reward, skill->reward.
Just end this time->reward thingy. It's sad.

If I, with limited play time, could get a character to level 73 running Fellshrine, then there is plenty of chance for others to get to where they want.

I disagree with making maps harder for XP purposes. I do think we need higher level areas, and I am really looking forward to Act 4 whenever it is done> I hope they do a good job of making a smooth difficulty transition while still raising the bar.

If they have enough new content to get the top zones of Act 4 to be level 73 or level 74 it would be fantastic!

Then they could raise the top maps to lvl 80, and maybe add a fight against Kaom in a level 90 map ...

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Zanixx написал:

If the content wouldn't be gated behind luck, one aspect of economy would be lost - no more maps trading.

I appreciate this wasn't on purppose but please be careful not to misquote.

That sentence has nothing to do with me

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tinko92 написал:

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Shagsbeard написал:

It's called a soft cap... and it's essential for games like this. Players decide for themselves when a character is "done". You don't have to continue leveling past any given point. Call it level 85. Call it 90. It's up to you.

The whole point of a soft cap is that you never expect to see an end to the progression, but that there's no real reward left for progressing further.

If you were to make leveling up "routine"... it would be expected. They would have to design content specifically for level 100 characters. No thanks. Having one character of each class at level 100 in HC is a goal for a lifetime of play (for me). It's so distant that it's completely unreasonable to assume I'll ever complete it. We need holy grails to chase. Impossible quests. They know this and will never make leveling to 100 routine.

May I ask, why are people constantly bound to extremities?

If the situation wasn't like it is now, if the content is gated behind difficulty, it would automatically make leveling a routine?

Nice try, it really was a nice try, but no.

We differ in opinions, mainly because we play the game differently. That doesn't make me wrong, or you right.

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Zanixx написал:

Ultimately, this game is about loot AND character progression. In Poe, they've done a good job making sure that if you aren't getting one, you are probably getting the other.

Define "loot" in this context? Running Piety?

At your level, you get good amounts of XP from maps that aren't hard to come by. At 84/85, things start to change (it's just a few levels difference, but costs and XP penalties increase sharply), and I imagine by 90 you have to invest far more (currency) than you get back to progress further. The loot you get then will not compensate for what you'll spend on buying and rolling maps. Unless you are lucky, but that is the OP's point.

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Zanixx написал:

I'm sorry, is this aimed at me?! Why so much aggression....

I laughed at the first paragraph above... sigh. Grow-up.

Anyway... I'm not here to argue against your points. Lots of people think the same (albeit a minority IMO) but we clearly have some differences when we play.

Side Note: I don't think mapping is perfect and lots could be done to improve them.

Firstly, I get excited when a high level map drops. Its cool to FINALLY see that 78 or whatever drop. If they dropped more (Im not saying you are calling for them the fall from the sky) then they need to find a delicate place as I don't want to lose that excitement.

Secondly, more content is coming so even if they didnt change anything, hopefully we will all be pleased soon. I know from your posts that I've seen, that you tend to complain about everything you can. I can't remember the last time I saw a post where you praised GGG however, I am also not your stalker ;) so who knows!
Perhaps you need a break (im not trying to wind you up here or 'tell' you what to do). Perhaps you have ran sooooooooooooo many low level maps that you can't stand to run them, even for that 1-3% experience, ever.

I have friends who trade all their maps with vendor to get higher ones. Some of them don't even run a single 66 and then they wonder why they have no map pool by the time they hit the mid-70's. Trust me, run enough 6x's and you get your map pool. Maybe not 300 78's but plenty to be getting on with.

Ultimately, this game is about loot AND character progression. In Poe, they've done a good job making sure that if you aren't getting one, you are probably getting the other.

Yes, that was aimed at you, hence the quotation.
You laughed on that paragraph? Imagine what was my reaction on your crap "people don't play for fun, they want level 100".
And I'm the one that should grow up? The irony.

I feel excited at high map drops because that's like dropping multiple exalts at once, which usually doesn't happen in weeks, if not months. That's the only reason why I feel excited, and I've always started mapping with the only one thought in my head: "please, just give me a refund map, I don't care about item drops", I only look for white framed text, because that's money, an economic value.

People like Shagsbeard have extremities tendency, and cannot comprehend that it doesn't have to be in extremities. In that mindset, it's either white or black.
If the content is gated behind difficulty, getting a high lvl map would bear a lot more meaning overall, it wouldn't be just "I pulled the lever, hit the jackpot".

I keep reading about more acts and higher level areas, that maps aren't a permanent endgame, I just can't see that as the truth. Look at the A3X.
Maps are a great idea wrapped by a cheap RNG, and my guess is that's because of the fucking economy.
And you're also not a good reader than, just recently, I've wrote couple of statements of PoE being superior than X game, which does mean a lot judging by the whole game genre. But I do understand why that escaped your eyes.
I do praise the game (not GGG) when it's due, I just tend to participate mainly in endgame discussions, which turns out the way it does, and I do not care if that's in a negative or positive way, because it's in objective way.

I have taken a break.
I have run many low level maps, but I've run 72+ lvl maps a lot more. What I can't stand is already being said.

Thanks for the mapping advice.

The last statement is a huge contradiction, because progression is loot (maps).

think of high level maps as a luxury, they aren't meant to be spammed until you hit lvl 100. Think of it like playing skyrim, you get an uber powerful character but eventually you just steamroll everything and get no benefit. It's still fun that way.

the reason it would be bad to get to 100 is because what happens once the majority of the player base hits lvl 100? they instantly look for the next thing to do, which since the developers are not gods... is usually moving on to the next game.

Just look on any traditional MMO forums, all you will see is people whining about when the next thing (next tier, next expansion, next dungeon) is gonna come out because they are insanely bored after they "conquer" the whole game.

Soft-cap FTW



BTW, here's a tip: get mirrored on a cartographers strongbox and use a vaal orb on it

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demivion написал:

think of high level maps as a luxury, they aren't meant to be spammed until you hit lvl 100. Think of it like playing skyrim, you get an uber powerful character but eventually you just steamroll everything and get no benefit. It's still fun that way.

the reason it would be bad to get to 100 is because what happens once the majority of the player base hits lvl 100? they instantly look for the next thing to do, which since the developers are not gods... is usually moving on to the next game.

Just look on any traditional MMO forums, all you will see is people whining about when the next thing (next tier, next expansion, next dungeon) is gonna come out because they are insanely bored after they "conquer" the whole game.

Soft-cap FTW



BTW, here's a tip: get mirrored on a cartographers strongbox and use a vaal orb on it

Again, extremities.

If the content would be gated behind difficulty, lvl 100 doesn't have to be closer than it is now, in fact, I'm all for it being farther away.

Bad try.