Gating XP and progress behind RNG

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demivion написал:

BTW, here's a tip: get mirrored on a cartographers strongbox and use a vaal orb on it

Tinko is 98. I think you can safely assume that he knows what he's talking about when it comes to mapping. More than anyone else in this thread. It's ridiculous when people in the early 80s give him advice on running maps.

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andkamen написал:

there is still a lot more content to be released. The characters are simply not meant to be leveled to 90++.

So the game is just a demo, is that what you're saying?
Why was PoE released as a "full" game if it's just an early-access one?

If characters are not meant to be leveled to 90++, then make the level cap at 90. I mean it's like saying "you're not supposed to do lvl 78 maps, we just added them because it's fun to add stuff you're not supposed to do".


And people leaving once they reach the level cap? Well I guess it makes sense... seeing as there are no popular games with people easily able to reach the level cap. I mean not a single game has ever held its player base if they allow them to reach the level cap. Not. One. Nope, not a single one, not ever in the history of video games.

What's next? Gate gear slots behind RNG cos people would spend time trying to unlock their chest piece, I mean surely if all gear slots are open people would leave once they have them all open. You're not even supposed to be fully geared anyway.

Just play ambush. It's really not hard to maintain maps there at all.

Have 20+ of both 75 and 76 maps. I actually started selling 78s at one point. Only ever bought five 75 maps for 1.5 chaos each at the start of the league.

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phrazz написал:

^I agree.

I just feel that the hill is too steap to climb. Think I've ran about 50 lvl73 maps this week, all with 40+ IIQ - didn't see ONE 74 map. Think I've ran about 40-50 corrupted zones this week, NO midnight fragment.

It's not hard at all, 73 maps are easy. The zones are easy. It's just time, time, time, time. And time. Time? Yes, time. TIME!

Make maps HARDER and the XP gain better. Risk->reward, skill->reward.
Just end this time->reward thingy. It's sad.

 Exactly correct IMHO. I've been saying that the risk>reward>time is great at the beginning and fails at the high levels quite badly. XP and item progression is bad the higher the level you are. Chris has always said (first heard over a year ago) that item progression isn't where it needs to be (translation: suck donkeys) yet to date I haven't seen any change to make it better. Shame on you Chris for agreeing with players that think item progression is awful as you level up and yet you have not instructed anyone to improve it at all.

 I don't like the idea of a "soft cap" as Shagsbeard calls it. While it is true that for any build we can stop at any time it is human nature to want to work toward a goal and then having reached that goal of level 100 we get a very satisfying feeling of a completed build. Then we can re-roll a new build and try a different class and be very happy with our accomplishment with the previous build. If we keep playing and playing and playing a build until the grind drives us crazy mad from boredom and stop we have not reached a satisfying conclusion to our exiles journey in Wraeclast and thus are unhappy that we have to throw in the towel on that build (just not worth the major time grind at present to get to 100).

 I've always advocated this:

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Arrowneous написал:

 We as long term players are not wanting to just throw away a character and start over every month or so. We want to see if we can get a build to 100 and retire it and then start over with a completely different build. Hey GGG, come to think about it, if we could get a build to level 100, have it pardoned for being falsely convicted of crimes, and get to leave Wraeclast as a free person, then that character is retired permanently so we must start over with a new build, that is actually a worthy goal and motivation to grind to get to level 100. The gear we are using and carrying gets placed into a remove-only stash tab, the character build with gear and gems used to reach level 100 and stats with how long we've had the build and total time played to reach level 100 is placed on a pardoned exile ladder with shortest time to level 100 at the top and a link to the passive tree so everyone else can learn from it for their own builds.

 That's what you should be doing to put the "fun" back into PoE. Not trying to prevent us from reaching level 100 but actually encouraging us to grind to level 100 and retire the build and then start over with another class and new build. Why, you could have another achievement and prize for getting a build to 100 and then offer a super grand prize for getting a build in all 7 classes to level 100. That's a motivation worthy of continuing to play PoE. GGG's thinking that "we need to keep players from reaching level 100 at all costs" is complete crap and bull shit and is certainly driving (has driven) millions of arpg-ers away from PoE. Stop killing the fanbase and reverse your thinking on PoE difficulty.

 Most of us who still play PoE even with its many flaws would probably like to be able to get a build to level 100 in less than a year of moderate playing time (20 to 30 hours per week ).

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RediusMaximus написал:

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rrtson написал:

stuff

All you need to explode your map pool is running level 73ish maps until you get a Cartographers Strongbox. Roll that sucker up with +items, and +3-5 chest level (may take a few chaos to get it). Open, clear, and wade through the resulting pile of maps. Just one box, rolled up properly, can have upwards of 15 maps inside...and with the +chest level, you're likely to get several that are 75-78.

Honestly, I've never had an issue keeping my high level map stocks in ambush, thanks to Cart-Boxes.

Cart boxes are nice and all, but...

During the last state of exile podcast, Chris said that he isn't happy about how so many high level maps are dropping currently, and although Cart boxes are going to become a permanent fixture in all leagues, GGG is going to nerf their spawn rates.

Copy/paste for Dirk.

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I've seen you claiming that a lot of times, and I have a hard time every time I read that, here's why:

1. When A3X came out, areas were lowered to compensate
2. Map drops serve its purpose in the economy, since this is an economy based game, I see no reason why would endgame stop being one pillar of the economy
3. If future acts would provide higher level areas (70+), then why do we have this situation now? Why is the content gated when we don't have those acts, when it doesn't have to be?

Unless future acts would provide higher level areas, but it would be like this:
- You need to find a Key of Lower Hardcoreness to unlock the doors in Act 4 that lead to Act 5, which contains higher level areas, and so forth with the acts (Key of Moderate Hardcoreness unlocks Act 6, etc.)
- The Keys of X Hardcoreness are approximately as rare as mirrors and are trade-able of course
- Once you unlock a certain Act, you have it unlocked permanently

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DirkAustin написал:

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Idioticus написал:

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andkamen написал:

there is still a lot more content to be released. The characters are simply not meant to be leveled to 90++.

So the game is just a demo, is that what you're saying?
Why was PoE released as a "full" game if it's just an early-access one?

If characters are not meant to be leveled to 90++, then make the level cap at 90. I mean it's like saying "you're not supposed to do lvl 78 maps, we just added them because it's fun to add stuff you're not supposed to do".


And people leaving once they reach the level cap? Well I guess it makes sense... seeing as there are no popular games with people easily able to reach the level cap. I mean not a single game has ever held its player base if they allow them to reach the level cap. Not. One. Nope, not a single one, not ever in the history of video games.

What's next? Gate gear slots behind RNG cos people would spend time trying to unlock their chest piece, I mean surely if all gear slots are open people would leave once they have them all open. You're not even supposed to be fully geared anyway.

It is a full release of a game but that doesnt mean content will not have to be added.

Making new chars seems to be out and lvling 1 char is the in thing to do. Not GGGs fault people dont roll new chars every now and then and instead go for the lvl 100 grind. More content in the future means slightly better ways of getting to lvl 100 because area lvls will be rescaled and be higher than currently.

Tell me this, though.
What does it matter if people reach lvl 100 now?
Lets say in 10 years GGG has finally finished the game and act 10 is finally released, with the final boss area being lvl 100.

Some lvl 100 character who is in hardcore or standard affects the new leagues how? And further, by then you could have ran the other higher level content from acts 4-9 to reach 100 much easier anyway.


So, what good reason does GGG have in gating placeholder content behind RNG.

Any other game would do the sensible thing and keep the maximum level close to the content you're going to give the players.
Why hold a carrot and keep it out of reach? To mock us? What's the point?
You know, and anyone who has any understanding of the human mind, that GGG's current... choice causes frustration to people because they want to reach what's possible.
So is GGG purposefully mocking people or is this just another case showing their weird fetish for RNG?

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Worldbreaker написал:

You can hit level 100 doing docks.

Gating XP is bad, gating increased XP gains is not.

huh?

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Idioticus написал:

Any other game would do the sensible thing and keep the maximum level close to the content you're going to give the players.
Why hold a carrot and keep it out of reach?

For some people it is not out of reach - it is aimed at those players.