Why does GGG not keep their promise?

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Veruski написал:

why is 70% too good?

because 70% as good as a BiS rare is insanely good, even for a rare.

if you get yourself a dagger that is 70% as good as the best possible rare dagger, in a 4-month, you are a fucking pimp supreme.

sure, there might be a guy with a better dagger out there. maybe one person even manages to craft a perfect one during a 4-month.

but you're talking about a very tiny amount of better daggers. once you go beyond something like tyrannical + flaring, with IAS and Crit........

but, now, if weapons/items are constantly released that are like, 70% as good as a perfectly rolled rare...that's a huge bar to set!

you might as well just say: rares are trash, don't bother, unless you intend on mirroring or crafting a 6x T1.

What I am saying is all we have is anecdotal evidence from you, and anecdotal evidence from others saying "its fine"

Maybe if we had some actual numbers, such as looking at poe.xyz and saying 'here is the sort of wansd available and how they compare in aspd, crit, and dps'

sure, go look it up wands in Ambush on poe.xyz and laugh at how bad they are in comparison to that unique.

i don't see how it's an "anecdote" that 70% as good as a mirrored BiS rare, is really fucking good, if not obviously way too good for a unique weapon.

do you have some sort of angle on this that i am not understanding?

I don't care about the item cause its req lvl 65, so I was just commenting because you were being fallacious with your argument, stating that if 70% is acceptable than 99% is still acceptable cause its not technically BiS.

At the moment all you are doing is just yelling angrily, which is not really beneficial to improving the situation, nor thought provoking, nor something which GGG might read and go "yes, lets try and improve"

Maybe if you changed it to instead of just frothing at the mouth, perhaps you could provide useful feedback. Maybe investigating what sort of a percentage it becomes acceptable.

Or maybe as others have commented, looking into whether biS for ONE build makes a unique bad, or if its the BiS for a large number of different builds where it starts being a problem?

Something more than just constantly complaining saying that 70% means its stupid and broken and everything sucks the world is doomed die i hate cheese.

Cause then maybe people could listen to your arguments, discuss them, and a real beneficial possibility could be presented to GGG so that these things can be better in future

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Real_Wolf написал:

stating that if 70% is acceptable than 99% is still acceptable cause its not technically BiS.

actually, that was their argument that i was explaining to them was crappy.

the author of the thread said it's bad because the items are basically "bis"

other people pointed out that there is "no issue" because they "technically aren't BiS"

the 99% was a counter-example to that logic -- meaning just because an item isn't "technically BiS" doesn't mean it can't be bad for the game/itemization.

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Real_Wolf написал:

At the moment all you are doing is just yelling angrily

actually i'm pretty sure i took a decent amount of time to clearly articulate the points i was making.

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Real_Wolf написал:

5 solid paragraphs of ad hominem

wow...

That item design philosophy of rares being best in slot only works if rares are also best content and design wise. Which is as far from true as it can be.
They have ported the rare affix system almost directly from D2, where rares were vendor trash.
It wasn't conceived to generate late game items and still isn't.
If the esteemed end game item has the same affixes as the ones the player ends norm with, exept all values are doubled, the game is going to get content and scaling issues.

They should add more varied affixes to give the rare item system more depth or let it drop to mid - late game status. Currently it is so horrible it's killing the late game.

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andkamen написал:

Lioneye's glare can be matched by rare bows and surpassed by a lot, so is the new wand, even if the margin by which is can be beaten is smaller

Prior to various changes to bows and their interaction with certain things like Ondar's Guile, Lionseye Glare was actually BiS because accuracy was a massive issue for bow users. Before they changed modifiers around and shit (such as adding top end PDPS mods like Tyrannical which didn't exist prior to a certain point in PoE's life time), Lionseye was basically king. You could roll a Ele Thicket prior to that with higher dps, but it was hard as fuck, way more expensive, and totally not worth it since you'd still have big accuracy issues.


And the new wand will be significantly cheaper than any other wand that you could build that is better than the new one, and will still likely outperform it based on the additional accuracy modifier. A rare wand better than the new unique would be astronomically higher in price.

There is a tricky balance here.

If uniques are not stronger than enough of the rares, a unique drop doesn't feel special. Anyone here remember what legendary drops felt like in Diablo 3 when it first shipped? That's an example of how to do unique items poorly.

If uniques are stronger than too many of the rares, a rare drop doesn't feel special. What's the point of identifying all those countless rares if there is virtually no chance of the rare being better?

That said, I think Lioneye's Glare is actually made fairly well. Let's look into it more.

(150 to 175)% increased Physical Damage
Adds (6–20 to 12–32) Physical Damage
This is roughly equivalent to the Tyrannical (73) and Razor Sharp (54) affixes. This is very strong, but it is beatable by a truly excellent rare with Flaring or perhaps even one of the damage/accuracy affixes in addition to the two physical prefixes.
(10 to 20)% increased Attack Speed
Roughly equivalent to of Fame (45). It's also possible for rare to beat this out.
+(80 to 100) to maximum Mana
A great affix for a unique, since it's not directly comparable.
Hits can't be Evaded
I essentially view this as +5.2% more damage and + infinite Accuracy. Infinite Accuracy is definitely nice, and it's the thing which makes this bow actually feel like a unique instead of just a decent rare. You can build around it, and people do. However, a decent gear setup can provide enough Accuracy where little or no passive commitment is necessary to hit sufficiently, so a rare can still be better.

Note the lack of Critical Strike Chance and Critical Strike Multiplier. This is a drawback, since rares can have this (in addition to just flat-out superior pDPS).

Lioneye's feels special when it drops, but it's possible enough for rares to outdo it where you don't stop identifying them to see if they do. That's a good power level.

There only needs to be a balance if the unique in question is directly competing on vanilla rare stats (which they should never do).

Even if it had the same dps as a powerful rare, if it has one defining (dare I say, unique) aspect to it, it is a worthy sidegrade and worth attention.

As an example, compare Taryn's Shiver to a rare caster staff. You can do better than the Shiver in vanilla stats, but it doesn't only compete on those. The freeze chance and the increased damage to frozen enemies (which affects your party's damage as well!) is what makes it a good unique. It makes it worth pursuing freeze chance more than you would with a normal caster staff.

The problem is that Piscator's doesn't have a sharp enough niche. It replaces and is replaced by rare ele-wands in a purely mechanical fashion. The character's build and tree do not change at all when deciding to use it or not

I mean, hell, even if it had a 1% chance to generate a power charge on hit it would be infinitely more interesting. We wouldn't even be here discussing where it sits relative to other rares since it should have some perpendicularity from rares.

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ScrotieMcB написал:

There is a tricky balance here.

If uniques are not stronger than enough of the rares, a unique drop doesn't feel special. Anyone here remember what legendary drops felt like in Diablo 3 when it first shipped? That's an example of how to do unique items poorly.

If uniques are stronger than too many of the rares, a rare drop doesn't feel special. What's the point of identifying all those countless rares if there is virtually no chance of the rare being better?

That said, I think Lioneye's Glare is actually made fairly well. Let's look into it more.

(150 to 175)% increased Physical Damage
Adds (6–20 to 12–32) Physical Damage
This is roughly equivalent to the Tyrannical (73) and Razor Sharp (54) affixes. This is very strong, but it is beatable by a truly excellent rare with Flaring or perhaps even one of the damage/accuracy affixes in addition to the two physical prefixes.
(10 to 20)% increased Attack Speed
Roughly equivalent to of Fame (45). It's also possible for rare to beat this out.
+(80 to 100) to maximum Mana
A great affix for a unique, since it's not directly comparable.
Hits can't be Evaded
I essentially view this as +5.2% more damage and + infinite Accuracy. Infinite Accuracy is definitely nice, and it's the thing which makes this bow actually feel like a unique instead of just a decent rare. You can build around it, and people do. However, a decent gear setup can provide enough Accuracy where little or no passive commitment is necessary to hit sufficiently, so a rare can still be better.

Note the lack of Critical Strike Chance and Critical Strike Multiplier. This is a drawback, since rares can have this (in addition to just flat-out superior pDPS).

Lioneye's feels special when it drops, but it's possible enough for rares to outdo it where you don't stop identifying them to see if they do. That's a good power level.

On introduction Lionseye was not well made; it was BiS for bows at the time. The reason why Lionseye is not BiS is because some reworking of bow passives, changing of certain interactions, etc.


Essentially instead of nerfing Lionseye GGG just introduced power creeping on bows.

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allbusiness написал:

On introduction Lionseye was not well made; it was BiS for bows at the time.

Pretty sure Tyrannical and Flaring and Emporer's prefixes were around then, too. So no, it's been fine the entire time.

I don't think the new wand is boring. It deals no physical damage; that's a relevant drawback, especially when you consider off-weapon jewelry.