Crit Multiplier + Diamond Flask (still) too powerful

The build I'm looking at running for OB will (by level 70) will have, independent of gear, a 45% chance to crit on cast, ~3 casts per second, 18 projectiles per cast, a 10% chance to crit on projectile hit, and a 25% chance to shock on projectile hit.

That's 3.15 crits per second (distributed among targets), and 4.5 shocked targets per second. It has only slightly less crit multiplier, and slightly fewer defense nodes. The difference is the flask layout: 1 Mana, 2 Granite, 2 Diamond; 0-1 Diamond and 1-2 Granite flasks can be swapped out for 1-3 Ele flasks as needed (you know, for those maps with crazy ele mods, or dense packs of ele reflect) without sacrificing its only source of dps. Arguably much more defensible and efficient.

Oh, it'll also be a hell of a lot easier to spec gear for, because with after the passive build and skill gems, it really doesn't care what mods it gets.. crits, fc, spell damage, mf, res, doesn't matter..

EDIT: Just saying, I think that competes for viability against diamond flasks.

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SL4Y3R написал:

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lethal_papercut написал:

People like high DPS & currently the only way to compete in that regard is to have a Diamond Flask build.

Flat out incorrect.

Orly, well please enlighten me of a build that doesn't use RT whose DPS doesn't increase when they pop a diamond flask. Every chara has at least 150% crit multi & accuracy is irrelevant to casters as spells don't miss. We are in a situation where with 5flasks you can have 100% up time of crit damage without investing a single point in crit chance. That means with no multi passives whatsoever every chara will do 150% more damage if they run 5flasks.

It doesn't take a crystal ball to realise that come OB people are gonna realise this pretty fast and every Tom, Dick & Harry will be striving to run a 5flask build with maxed crit multi, it's what people do, the nature of the beast if you will, it happens in every game that offers crit. People want dem big numbers.

You stated, and I quote, "the ONLY way to compete, in that regard is to have a Diamond Flask build".

This is wrong. So, so wrong. Victor just stated he has 22k w/ RT. My witch had around 9k (27k with shotgun). ALL WITHOUT DIAMONDS.

You are also incorrect about spells and accuracy. If they hit, will they always hit? Yes. Do they always hit? Nope.

Doorways, tight areas, actually missing due to distance or the enemy moving, etc.

So tell me a build that hasn't got higher DPS when using a Diamond. That is the question.

Your example is a RT build which is a moot point because they can't even crit. There are no builds that wouldn't have higher DPS if they used 5Diamonds. That turns the game into the most efficient way to have a build with 5flasks & totally negates every crit chance node on the tree for anyone wanting to make that build.

Got a good build? It would be better with 5Diamonds.

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SL4Y3R написал:

You are also incorrect about spells and accuracy. If they hit, will they always hit? Yes. Do they always hit? Nope.

Doorways, tight areas, actually missing due to distance or the enemy moving, etc.

Come one, doorways and tight areas? You know what he means and you know he is right.

You are basically saying that he needs to run and hide!

Nah, he just got a little too semantic. He is right that a spell's animation doesn't always hit. The fallacy is that neither do attack animations always hit, for the same reasons. The difference (and significance that lethal was getting at) is that spells don't require accuracy investment, because unlike attacks, when the projectiles do make contact they do always hit.

The argument is largely irrelevant to diamond flasks though. Spells vs attacks behave that way regardless of whether a diamond flask was used.

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lethal_papercut написал:

So tell me a build that hasn't got higher DPS when using a Diamond. That is the question.

. . .

Got a good build? It would be better with 5Diamonds.

Sure, if DPS is the only relevant statistic.

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CanHasPants написал:

Sure, if DPS is the only relevant statistic.

In Default what else is there?

I actually always ran with 4 diamonds and a granite. The granite for rhoa charges that I cannot hit in time.

Also, and I'm surprised NO ONE has mentioned this.

BUT, there are new flasks coming out..... If those diamond builds wish to maintain their "DPS" let them. I'll be too busy running past their slow ass.

Quicksilver ftw.

EDIT: Answered your question before I could even read it. lol

EDIT 2x: There is also EHP. Resists. MS. MF. AoE. What's fun to the player.

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SL4Y3R написал:

Also, and I'm surprised NO ONE has mentioned this.

BUT, there are new flasks coming out..... If those diamond builds wish to maintain their "DPS" let them. I'll be too busy running past their slow ass.

Quicksilver ftw.

EDIT: Answered your question before I could even read it. lol

No one has mentioned it because it's totally irrelevant to the topic at hand, we are talking about Crit flasks not how fast you can run about.

Edit:

EDIT 2x: There is also EHP. Resists. MS. MF. AoE. What's fun to the player.

Come on Slayer you really don't need to play the naive act. Look at every ARPG out there, the most popular builds are always centered around DPS, I don't even know why I am saying that because you know perfectly well already.

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myr написал:

i think one thing people overlook is that the game only really goes to like lvl 65 right now it seems people are running lvl 60 maps with their lvl 75 diamond flask ranger and being like OMGZ TOO EASY. well i mean wait until these crits actually dont kill everything in 1 hit and it takes 2 flasks to off the whole group and now is it really helpful to carry 5 diamonds?

That would be the dream. Every content will be outleveled/outgeared at some point tho.