the biggest "LIE" of this game...

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sidtherat написал:

ice nova, ice shot are just two examples

Slayer had a lvl 86 (maybe higher?) ice shot build.

I think I'm going to make an ice nova build to shut you up too.

take that ice shot and replace with la. enjoy double effective dps

la is far superior to any other ele attavk and picking ice shot is just because somebody wanted to. but it makes little sense effectiveness wise

and ice nova.. yep. long cast and dmg similar to phys element of detonate dead. please do continue

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sidtherat написал:

take that ice shot and replace with la. enjoy double effective dps

la is far superior to any other ele attavk and picking ice shot is just because somebody wanted to. but it makes little sense effectiveness wise

and ice nova.. yep. long cast and dmg similar to phys element of detonate dead. please do continue

Hold on buttercup

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youll not see them used in maps at all

Plus, is your argument really not all skills are viable therefore there's no diversity, while at the same time comparing POE to D2? Shit POE wins diversity just based off that fact that each class can use each skill, nevermind when you throw in life, low life, CI, life/es, armor, evasion and all the other defensive combinations.

Game balance works in ebbs and flows. Sometimes shit is really strong, others really weak then it flips. I did a discharge build before the buff and I found myself becoming an ice spear build because discharge sucked. Now everyone is screaming for a discharge nerf. Eventually ice nova will be buffed. Ice shot isn't meant for high dps, also LA users are first in line to complain about thorns. Ice shot has good dps but it's appeal is from it's chill/freeze benefits. Same reason storm call does more damage than ice spear, lightning is designed to do more damage than ice. The problem with ice in general is the CC is so strong that if you make it's DPS comparable to any other skills it will automatically win, hence why FP was/is so popular (not nearly as popular now as it was CB/early OB).

Didn't you stop posting in the other thread because I pointed out how you're unreasonable? Should I just take that route again so you run? The game will never be 100% balanced, it's impossible, even for a large company like bliz. I remember reading a post from Qarl this morning saying he doesn't even like the idea of a perfectly balanced game. He likes that people can find OP combinations, and he's the guy in charge of balancing.

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sidtherat написал:

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RagnarokChu написал:

Also bonemancers/smiters/hammerdins is build diversity? I can randomly name 3 in PoE which is groundslammers, summoners, LA archers. Hell there's literally a build for every single skill in the entire game.

just wanted to tell that while you probably CAN make a build for every skill there are some that are simply way worse than others and as such youll not see them used in maps at all

ice nova, ice shot are just two examples

also - when would you superimpose builds people make there are THE paths people take that make their builds. and all of these paths are directed by life and foremost life nodes and other stuff later. it is still path of life nodes (fortunately to a lesser extent) but you HAVE to take life and as such your builds are limited to what path of life allows for. scion and her life circle eased this a bit because that 80+ wheel allows for ignoring some of the standard life nodes but on the other hand it made scion the best class for almost any high life build

Is there a double standard or some shit?

In diablo 2 there are completely useless skills you cannot build an entire build around and every single build is max vit as much as possible and wear enough str for gear. (Unless your that one wonky build that max mana instead)

You guys are lying to yourself if you think there is a magical game to this date were you have countless amounts of "viable, equally competitive end game builds."

Can they improve more character customization? Sure, keep working/adding to the passive skill tree and fix up and add more abilities over time? Saying "no build diversity.", that's just crying for the sake of crying.

Also what the hell would do you other then "superimpose" builds that they choose to be optimal. Automatically give them life per level? Have a vit stat instead? Force you every level to take damage/damage mitigation alternating? Randomly roll a dice to determine how much life you get per level? Scale the monsters damage to what hp you have? What magical solution's is there is an "optional" path to choose a certain type of damage-mitigation in a certain situation and people don't want to "feel" to be forced into it so they can be special snowflakes? Randomly generate the passive tree to be different per person?

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Bluntski написал:

Build diversity in this game is a joke really.

PoE has skill diversity, but there is no real build diversity. Every build in PoE = connect the life nodes on tree, get life+resists on every piece of gear.

There is plenty of nice skills, and maybe you want to try many of them out? Problem is that in PoE gearing up and leveling is very hard, so you really have to focus everything, your time effort and currency, all into 1 char if you want it to be good. That's the great irony of PoE.

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Moosifer написал:

Eventually ice nova will be buffed.

I would love to see it buffed, but I don't think a 360° AoE that freezes will ever get very high dps as well.

first step to diversify - that is allow people to take less life-efficient paths - is to base difficulty on mechanics and skill not on braindead and dated oneshot and gear check mechanics

as long as this game has swarm AI this is impossible.

currently players are forced to build up defense as much as they can. just to avoid random spike dmg (and compensate for desync)

people would be able to try and play with wierd stuff if (with current tree) 2k ehp would be enough. currently it isnt so people gear for more (ehp ofc incpudes evasion mom acro etc mechanics) thus limiting possible build

game that is hard because some numbers are crazy is limiting

btw moo: i stoped replying to you because ive added you to ignore script and forgot to update it on my phone. no need to worry. fixed that

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sidtherat написал:

first step to diversify - that is allow people to take less life-efficient paths - is to base difficulty on mechanics and skill not on braindead and dated oneshot and gear check mechanics

as long as this game has swarm AI this is impossible.

currently players are forced to build up defense as much as they can. just to avoid random spike dmg (and compensate for desync)

people would be able to try and play with wierd stuff if (with current tree) 2k ehp would be enough. currently it isnt so people gear for more (ehp ofc incpudes evasion mom acro etc mechanics) thus limiting possible build

game that is hard because some numbers are crazy is limiting

btw moo: i stoped replying to you because ive added you to ignore script and forgot to update it on my phone. no need to worry. fixed that

You can take a less "life-efficient" path, it just means you have less damage mitigation and die faster. So you remove the damage of damage an enemy has that makes you'll have to change how much to deal damage to the enemies to keep the same pace or raise their hp.

I'm not sure about you an ARPGs are all about gear and you looking over top your guy clicking a few abilities and killing hordes of enemies. Unless they magically make ARPG which has a dodging/positional base system and many new mechanical additions to the game. Numbers are meaningless because the underlying reason why builds feel "limited" is because the game is limiting in how a character can builds strength.

Number of viable builds is also largely affected by how long it takes to complete a build. With PoE's current lengthy build completion times, would you go for an interesting build that takes 4 weeks to finish and is a bit risky, over a build that takes 3 weeks to finish and likely won't die? The choice is pretty simple since you're likely to lose a week at least. Hence the former build isn't viable.

But if the decision was between an interesting build that takes 10 days to finish and is risky, and a build that takes 7 days to finish and is pretty safe, the choice is less clear since the difference is only a few days, plus if you fail due to the riskiness of the build it's not like weeks of effort go down the drain.

Hence the less time it takes to complete a build on average, the more builds become viable.

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Novalisk написал:

Hence the former build isn't viable.

No, we've all agreed on these terms. Viable just means it can do maps. Everyone is always trying to change it to optimal which is where all this confusion starts.

All 4 hypothetical builds you've suggested are viable (depending on your meaning of complete), some are more optimal than others, some more risky. Which you use depends on many factors beyond just a time invested one. Are you racing? Are you playing HC/SC? Do you have a difficulty goal, i.e. this build needs to tank palace dom? Do you want to use an odd skill combination? Feel like seeing what that cookie cutter build is all about?

I'm sure there are more, but those are questions I've recently asked myself and catered builds towards. The only one you mention specifically would fit into a race build.