i love new arctic armour as long as...

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Snorkle_uk написал:

I heard him say that, and its a stupid idea.

whether or not YOU think its a stupid or good idea, is highly irrelevant, no offense.

the point is it was their intention to have this skill used as something else than what it was used for. whether or not it was because of fault in design or fault in assessment of how 'good players' play, is again, highly irrelevant.

it is their design and their game, not ours.

it is fully within their right to redesign a skill they envisioned to be something else, but turned out into an exclusive gem for a certain part of builds.

moreover, the whole 'temp powerful buff for a cooldown/downside' is a major theme with GGG design. flasks are just that, and so are vaal skills. onslaught is another one. short, significant temp buffs seems to be an idea the devs like a lot- regardless of how efficient and helpful these are to 'good players'

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The game is too fast, stop to turn it on in a moment of danger like that and youll die, kite away to turn it on in safety then move back into battle... move... with an overleveled AA... welcome to having no mana by the time you are back in battle and you will die. It just doesnt work.

goals of GGG and goals of good players are often not the same, and thats a good thing IMO. GGG will still balance the game around 'good' players but many changes they do can and will slow down the efficiency, and when they do, they induce whine from 'good' players. GGG isnt on the same team as the good players and imo it should NEVER appease or deviate from their design ideas. author writes the book, people read it. lets not make the reader dictate shit to the writer.

I remember when facebook changed its layout for the first time. people went nuts, people did petitions, etc, etc...and guess what ? people took it and liked it in the end. then facebook changed it a million times again. that only induced threats in people to leave for myspace and whatnot, but at the end of the day...it was their platform and did what they deemed fit, including ads, selling your privacy info and what not. and at the end of the day, they were right.

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So explain to me how the new 25% aura that AA has become now fits this dream of theirs for AA to be a temp buff?

it doesnt- they scrapped it altogether and made it so any build can potentially use it. this is also a major trend with the beta- skills that used to be nearly exclusive to certain parts of builds (blood rage, AA) are now way more accessible to other builds, like AA. the only real exception to it is fortify, for obvious reasons.

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They dont know what they want to do with it, be honest, thats not unfair thats the truth, all they know is that they want it to be something rather crap that will not be very popular, so thats what they have done in the name of meta shift from a position of not really understanding why the caster meta is so popular.

with EB being gutted, it might be clear to them that people dont want to use it as a temp buff. fact is AA deviated from their initial point so far- it became a caster-only buff that was always-on, they mightve realized no one will use it anymore as a temp buff.

so they made it into something that is currently very questionable, but usable by both melee and caster builds.

I get it, people are against changes and are of the whole 'if it aint broke then dont fix it'. I am of the same mentality, beleive it or not. Just not for PoE. PoE is a game of constant change, builds, mechanic, items, economy and 'meta' wise.

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raics написал:

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Snorkle_uk написал:

No, it is not, they are not making AA into what they always wanted it to be, in fact entirely the opposite, they are taking it further away from what they 'wanted' it to be that it has ever been before.

Yes, you're perfectly right, it seems they finally realized that resource management in their game is a load of crap. My only hope is they won't attempt to make a skill around it ever again :)

I dont think this is the last we've seen of 'short defensive buff for a unique downside' skill attempt. they will likely just take a precaution to make the downside very concrete, like reservation cost, this time around.

I actually agree that they shouldve known that people would 'abuse' AA on high-mana characters due to EB. all it takes is a few simple calculations, really. I guess when they released the gem, the meta was very different- so quite ironically (because they catered to the meta) they kinda discounted lvl 20 AA being ran with inner force (which was hugely popular at that time) as something pretty infeasible and requiring a lot of dedication. but thats just my speculation.

They might have originally intended to make a temporary buff skill, but they never designed it that way. Why would anybody level a skill to give them a second or two of flat damage mitigation at the cost of losing all your mana? It would have to be leveled to give any kind of visible buff and if it drained your mana fast like they intended (to make it so temporary), it wouldn't be useful at all.

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mark1030 написал:

They might have originally intended to make a temporary buff skill, but they never designed it that way. Why would anybody level a skill to give them a second or two of flat damage mitigation at the cost of losing all your mana? It would have to be leveled to give any kind of visible buff and if it drained your mana fast like they intended (to make it so temporary), it wouldn't be useful at all.

you are confusing design and usability/viability

theres a reason why AA has two SEPARATE mana drains when standing and moving
theres a reason why AA is a toggable skill

if it was meant to be an always-on feature what is the point of two separate mana drains ?

AA was designed to have an extra layer of defense for casters who stand still, and if you have to move it would end in few seconds, or you toggle it before it ends, ie a temporary buff if you moved. lvl 20 AA only has 40 mana/s as stationary mana drain.

WHY was it designed like this ? you have to put it in context, just like most things in POE. it was designed around the time the toughest mobs people qqed about were voidbearers and tittybitches.

the game simply wasnt as streamlined around clear speed and dps as it is now. now, god forbid you lose movespeed and efficiency from stopping

ironically, the 'stand still' part made it into the 'new' AA.

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grepman написал:

AA was designed to have an extra layer of defense for casters who stand still, and if you have to move it would end in few seconds, or you toggle it before it ends, ie a temporary buff if you moved. lvl 20 AA only has 40 mana/s as stationary mana drain.

If this is indeed their intended design, it is defeated by Lightning Warp, Reduced Duration has been out for almost two years now.
AA never caused problems until MoM + CwDT-IC were introduced, taking care of the big hits that EB characters had little to no response to. Trivializing Voidbears and Miscreants was probably intended originally and no longer needed, yes. Doesn't mean the skill needs a complete rework and its synergies removed.

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Zed_ написал:

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grepman написал:

AA was designed to have an extra layer of defense for casters who stand still, and if you have to move it would end in few seconds, or you toggle it before it ends, ie a temporary buff if you moved. lvl 20 AA only has 40 mana/s as stationary mana drain.

If this is indeed their intended design, it is defeated by Lightning Warp, Reduced Duration has been out for almost two years now.
AA never caused problems until MoM + CwDT-IC were introduced, taking care of the big hits that EB characters had little to no response to. Trivializing Voidbears and Miscreants was probably intended originally and no longer needed, yes. Doesn't mean the skill needs a complete rework and its synergies removed.

there was no reduced duration when AA was introduced

btw I shouldve changed that sentence to 'players who stand still'. I dont think it was intended for casters only (like it turned out at the end)...at the time the meta was melee usually went BM and/or armour and acro/evasion kinda sucked, so thematically and situationally it fit casters.

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grepman написал:

with EB being gutted, it might be clear to them that people dont want to use it as a temp buff. fact is AA deviated from their initial point so far- it became a caster-only buff that was always-on, they mightve realized no one will use it anymore as a temp buff.

so they made it into something that is currently very questionable, but usable by both melee and caster builds.

I get it, people are against changes and are of the whole 'if it aint broke then dont fix it'. I am of the same mentality, beleive it or not. Just not for PoE. PoE is a game of constant change, builds, mechanic, items, economy and 'meta' wise.

usable by melee is part of the problem here. If you are eb you are taking your gears defensive stats and turning them into mana, or now mana shield. You are taking away your potential armour, evasion or energy shield rolls on gear and turning them into resources, so where is your defense? That was what AA did, the gap it filled, people who use EB are taking defenses off their gear and need defense, it was a GOOD thing that it was only usable by a niche, that was its original purpose. The idea that someone with a 2k armour or 2k evasion chest can use AA just as well as someone with a 600 es chest who then converted it all to mana and now has no defenses is one of the most terrible aspects of this change. It was designed to be an eb buff, it was designed to be exclusive, it didnt turn into that, it was designed that way because thats what actually made sense.


And no, you dont 'get it', I understand why you say that but you are not understanding where I come from and where I stand on these things. I make more suggestions on changes to this game than anyone else I see around here. Im constantly suggesting changes, things that need nerfed, things that need buffed. But that doesnt mean I like change for changes sake, that doesnt mean Im happy when I see bad changes being made that hurt the game and dont really fix anything. this isnt about being against change, this is about being against bad changes made for misguided reasons.

This whole crap with eb aa and mom has nothing to do with eb, aa and mom, I know it because I know the game very well, Ive played over 8k hours of this game and Im well versed in its trends, the devs for some reason dont seem to know it. They are trying to fix mom aa eb being too popular, thing is they dont understand their popularity is a side effect of spells popularity, it has nothing to do with defenses. Its like nerfing straws and cardboard cups in an attempt to stop your cities stats showing too many people eating at MacDonalds, theyre not going there for the straws and the cups thats just something that happens when you go there for the burgers. People dont roll spell builds because their defenses are strong, their defenses are shit and people roll spell builds anyway because of their offensive capabilities. Im all for fixing the disparity between melee and spells but it has nothing to do with defenses and this whole rampage of destruction through caster defenses going on is the blind, misguided, lazy, hamfisted nonsense that does nothing to address the actual problems. I dont hate it because its change, I hate it because its bad changes made for the wrong reasons and I hate it because of what that says about the devs.

You talk about readers dictating, well what is the enlighten change then? they made enlighten to be what they wanted it to be, and then certain people who should never have been listened to complained that it was less used than empower... now look at the mess that has caused. Not only do the readers shape the game, which in itself is not a bad thing imo, but sadly the author doesnt even understand his own work to the point where he knows what readers to listen to and how to implement their requests in a healthy manner.

Blind leading the blind. These are the things that make me unhappy, not the fact that things change.

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Snorkle_uk написал:

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Maybe the whole problem was AA being the only free thing out of the big trio.

For EB you sacrificed your ES, which might be useless if you don't focus on it, but it also makes you wear items with ES which also means you have a hard time stacking other defenses. that's kind of an investment. For MoM to be effective you need a decent amount of free mana and a lot of regen and there's no way around it. Once you get enough mana and regen for MoM to work properly it turns out you can run AA too. Honestly, they could have just removed the skill and tacked 'takes 200 points less physical and fire damage' on MoM and saved us the hassle of turning it on every zone :)

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Snorkle_uk написал:

usable by melee is part of the problem here. If you are eb you are taking your gears defensive stats and turning them into mana, or now mana shield. You are taking away your potential armour, evasion or energy shield rolls on gear and turning them into resources, so where is your defense? That was what AA did, the gap it filled, people who use EB are taking defenses off their gear and need defense, it was a GOOD thing that it was only usable by a niche, that was its original purpose.

wait what ?
no it was not. it was not designed with that in mind. its what it was ADAPTED for. we just went through this. the gem was designed as a short-term buff. its why there are two separate mana drains.

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It was designed to be an eb buff, it was designed to be exclusive, it didnt turn into that, it was designed that way because thats what actually made sense.

again, this is just plain false, and it was said multiple times by the devs themselves. it was meant to be a short-duraton buff complementing the 'standing still' mantra.

seriously, Im at a loss here. are you actually saying what devs said was bullshit and you know better ? because theres no other way to explain this post

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And no, you dont 'get it', I understand why you say that but you are not understanding where I come from and where I stand on these things. I make more suggestions on changes to this game than anyone else I see around here. Im constantly suggesting changes, things that need nerfed, things that need buffed. But that doesnt mean I like change for changes sake, that doesnt mean Im happy when I see bad changes being made that hurt the game and dont really fix anything. this isnt about being against change, this is about being against bad changes made for misguided reasons.

of course I get it, you only care about changes that are 'bad' in your opinion. its not rocket science. the problem is that you think you legitimately know better than the devs and are taking it so far as to actually SPEAK for them.

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This whole crap with eb aa and mom has nothing to do with eb, aa and mom, I know it because I know the game very well, Ive played over 8k hours of this game and Im well versed in its trends, the devs for some reason dont seem to know it.

you know what the change is about because you played x hours in this game ? what ? I cant believe Im reading this stuff. so because you played this game enough hours you think you can speak for devs ?
talk about a babylon tower sized ego.

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They are trying to fix mom aa eb being too popular, thing is they dont understand their popularity is a side effect of spells popularity, it has nothing to do with defenses. Its like nerfing straws and cardboard cups in an attempt to stop your cities stats showing too many people eating at MacDonalds, theyre not going there for the straws and the cups thats just something that happens when you go there for the burgers. People dont roll spell builds because their defenses are strong, their defenses are shit and people roll spell builds anyway because of their offensive capabilities. Im all for fixing the disparity between melee and spells but it has nothing to do with defenses and this whole rampage of destruction through caster defenses going on is the blind, misguided, lazy, hamfisted nonsense that does nothing to address the actual problems. I dont hate it because its change, I hate it because its bad changes made for the wrong reasons and I hate it because of what that says about the devs.

it does a lot to fix a lot of things that bottlenecked the introduction of new skills. EB is one of the main bottlenecks. you cannot design a single skill or mechanic related to size of mana pool or mana regen because it was effortless to get an absolute ridiculous amount of it. by fixing EB, a lot of things become much better - MoM is at a place it can be useful. by fixing EB, CoD doesnt become opieOP. by fixing EB, you actually need to invest into mana regen or maybe even mana leech instead of getting a one-keystone answer to any resource usage. fixing EB does a lot of things. theres a good post on reddit exactly about this right now actually.

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You talk about readers dictating, well what is the enlighten change then? they made enlighten to be what they wanted it to be, and then certain people who should never have been listened to complained that it was less used than empower... now look at the mess that has caused. Not only do the readers shape the game, which in itself is not a bad thing imo, but sadly the author doesnt even understand his own work to the point where he knows what readers to listen to and how to implement their requests in a healthy manner.


Blind leading the blind. These are the things that make me unhappy, not the fact that things change.

the enlighten change is bad, but enlighten change is fairly negligible in the grand scheme of things, just like AA change is. I wrote this in the same thread you had a hysteria over and declared you wont play new leagues because of it.

the other stuff is nonsense, sorry. if you think a couple of illogical changes means the devs - the people who actually created the damn game and are making it better and better - are BLIND, then your ego is at proportion that is unfixable at this point. if anyone thinks they know game balancing better than the devs, its time to do some urgent epeen amputation


the players do not dictate this game, please remember this. devs do the design. if they think something is used not as they intended, they can change it at any time. sure, there are bound to be mistakes or bad decisions entirely. no one expects the devs to be perfect and listen to everything the playerbase says, and if you do I have no words for you.