i love new arctic armour as long as...

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grepman написал:

by fixing EB, you actually need to invest into mana regen or maybe even mana leech instead of getting a one-keystone answer to any resource usage.

I might just be being a nitpicky douche here, but I was under the impression that the EB fix would do the opposite. I heard that the EB change was just, instead of converting ES to Mana, your spells run off ES instead. To me, that incentivizes completely avoiding max mana, mana regen, and mana leech in favor of a Zealot's Oath or Ghost Reaver playstyle and stacking tons of ES.

I guess maybe you meant that "by fixing EB, people will no longer take it, and thus will instead invest into mana regen/leech"?

Or am I completely misunderstanding how new EB functions?

Mark_GGG: "This is not meant to be a skill you can maintain"

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Mark_GGG написал:

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Ouroboros226 написал:

The manacost on this thing is uttely insane, you would have to build an entire character around it to even maintain it.

That's the point. This is not meant to be a skill you can maintain. The option exists to build around achieving that, if you so desire, but this is specifically intended as a temporary buff skill, not something you can always have on.

but of course devs words dont mean anything if you play 8k hours

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raics написал:

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Snorkle_uk написал:

...

Maybe the whole problem was AA being the only free thing out of the big trio.

For EB you sacrificed your ES, which might be useless if you don't focus on it, but it also makes you wear items with ES which also means you have a hard time stacking other defenses. that's kind of an investment. For MoM to be effective you need a decent amount of free mana and a lot of regen and there's no way around it. Once you get enough mana and regen for MoM to work properly it turns out you can run AA too. Honestly, they could have just removed the skill and tacked 'takes 200 points less physical and fire damage' on MoM and saved us the hassle of turning it on every zone :)

lol, well, maybe :D.



Arctic Armour came before MoM though, when arctic armour landed this was how people made casters... roll marauder, put in a blood magic gem, take iron reflexes and unwavering stance if you could, run grace + determination + purity + haste + vitality with 6 endurance charges and then pop iron skin granites constantly. I remember many people asking why marauders were the best casters, isnt this stupid that marauders are the best melee and the best casters and even llightning arrow and elemental cleave builds were starting marauder because they felt they had to have RT and they had to have Catalyst and they had to have elemental adaptation so they went to the marauder regardless of where they started.

Then they released AA and it gave EB builds some form of mitigation and actually made witches worth playing. Then slowly but surely people started to make spell builds as a witch without actually taking the tree to the marauder, and then came mom cod and actually the game made sense as witches now became the best caster class, as they should have been all along.



thing is, we went from marauder casters to witch casters, thats what AA and then MoM did. Where is melee in that picture? Its not there. It was str casters then int casters, destroy int casters and ull just end up with str casters or dex casters... you wont end up with melee because the same reason people made int casters is the same reason they made str casters and the same reason they will always make casters and none of this changes that. Some people like melee and will play melee regardless, most people will play casters and its either witch casters are good or we go back to stupidvile where people make marauder casters or ranger casters or whatever nonsense we are going to end up with now imo.

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grepman написал:

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Snorkle_uk написал:

usable by melee is part of the problem here. If you are eb you are taking your gears defensive stats and turning them into mana, or now mana shield. You are taking away your potential armour, evasion or energy shield rolls on gear and turning them into resources, so where is your defense? That was what AA did, the gap it filled, people who use EB are taking defenses off their gear and need defense, it was a GOOD thing that it was only usable by a niche, that was its original purpose.

wait what ?
no it was not. it was not designed with that in mind. its what it was ADAPTED for. we just went through this. the gem was designed as a short-term buff. its why there are two separate mana drains.

no I distinctly remember them saying at the time of release it was a way for characters who had very high mana regen to use that regen to get defense. It is you who are reading into Qarl saying that high level AA was not intended purely to be an always sustained thing that this means AA was not meant for high regen characters. It was, I clearly remember them saying it was at the time of release. So all you are saying about me speaking for the devs and ego this and that is misplaced.

What you say about fixing eb, they didnt fix it, they destroyed it. You never just took eb and that solved everything and let you run AA, use MoM etc, thats nonsense. You took inner force, devotion and took every bit of mana regen you could get your hands on along with getting mana regen stats on lots of your gear and feeding it a ton of es from your gear. Its not just take eb and youre done, thats not true at all.

Sry if me disagreeing with you has offended you, but I disagree with just about everything you just said, completely.


you think its arrogant to say I know things the devs dont? these are the devs that said people wont be able to get lvl4 enlightens in temp leagues because they wont exist there. I have level4 empowers from temp leagues, why wont lvl4 enlightens exist? they may not exist historically because no one is prioritizing getting lvl4 enlightens, they will exist now. I know this, they dont. The devs who said "years from now when people create perfect versions of the new weapon bases..." years... not days as is the reality, years... because they know everything right? The devs who said mom aa offers too much mitigation for too little investment... yeah ok mate, you seem to have that same delusion too so.... Think what you want, I stand by what I said.

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grepman написал:

Mark_GGG: "This is not meant to be a skill you can maintain"

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Mark_GGG написал:

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Ouroboros226 написал:

The manacost on this thing is uttely insane, you would have to build an entire character around it to even maintain it.

That's the point. This is not meant to be a skill you can maintain. The option exists to build around achieving that, if you so desire, but this is specifically intended as a temporary buff skill, not something you can always have on.

but of course devs words dont mean anything if you play 8k hours

that proves nothing, you need to have very high regen to even effectively use it as a short buff.

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adghar написал:

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grepman написал:

by fixing EB, you actually need to invest into mana regen or maybe even mana leech instead of getting a one-keystone answer to any resource usage.

I might just be being a nitpicky douche here, but I was under the impression that the EB fix would do the opposite. I heard that the EB change was just, instead of converting ES to Mana, your spells run off ES instead. To me, that incentivizes completely avoiding max mana, mana regen, and mana leech in favor of a Zealot's Oath or Ghost Reaver playstyle and stacking tons of ES.

I guess maybe you meant that "by fixing EB, people will no longer take it, and thus will instead invest into mana regen/leech"?

Or am I completely misunderstanding how new EB functions?

what you wrote is definitely true.

my point was a bit different tho- that the old EB converted all the ES into mana, which allowed for ton of mana pool and mana regen

so any skill/mechanic that is introduced that deals with having large mana pool or high regen like 'live' MoM and AA, in order to maintain them you will have to invest into mana nodes or regen nodes in close beta version of EB.
instead of getting both of these 'to go' with much less investment via 'live' EB

so with old EB, EB blocked any new skill mechanic that went along with it. dev 1 : lets design a cool mana skill that deals with mana regen. dev 2: oh wait we cant because people with EB can regen 250 mana/s + breaking no sweat. sadface

now, things like that can actually be designed. I was fine with old AA under new EB mechanics too. EB was the key to everything.

Oh okay, that makes a lot more sense. Thanks for explaining!!

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grepman написал:

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adghar написал:

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grepman написал:

by fixing EB, you actually need to invest into mana regen or maybe even mana leech instead of getting a one-keystone answer to any resource usage.

I might just be being a nitpicky douche here, but I was under the impression that the EB fix would do the opposite. I heard that the EB change was just, instead of converting ES to Mana, your spells run off ES instead. To me, that incentivizes completely avoiding max mana, mana regen, and mana leech in favor of a Zealot's Oath or Ghost Reaver playstyle and stacking tons of ES.

I guess maybe you meant that "by fixing EB, people will no longer take it, and thus will instead invest into mana regen/leech"?

Or am I completely misunderstanding how new EB functions?

what you wrote is definitely true.

my point was a bit different tho- that the old EB converted all the ES into mana, which allowed for ton of mana pool and mana regen

so any skill/mechanic that is introduced that deals with having large mana pool or high regen like 'live' MoM and AA, in order to maintain them you will have to invest into mana nodes or regen nodes in close beta version of EB.
instead of getting both of these 'to go' with much less investment via 'live' EB

so with old EB, EB blocked any new skill mechanic that went along with it. dev 1 : lets design a cool mana skill that deals with mana regen. dev 2: oh wait we cant because people with EB can regen 250 mana/s + breaking no sweat. sadface

now, things like that can actually be designed. I was fine with old AA under new EB mechanics too. EB was the key to everything.

so what you are saying is the devs can finally design mana degen skills... in a thread where we discuss how they have removed the only existing mana degen skill and made it a mana % reserve?

seriously?

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Snorkle_uk написал:

that proves nothing, you need to have very high regen to even effectively use it as a short buff.

lol I cant believe what Im reading, literally. stationary lvl 20 AA on live costs 40 mana/sec.
how hard is it to get 40 mana per second ?

devs literally state this several times, both on forums and on stream. yet youre STILL arguing this ?

the whole point was to have it manageable when stationary and large drain on moving you cant have it always on UNLESS you invest into it heavily

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Snorkle_uk написал:

no I distinctly remember them saying at the time of release it was a way for characters who had very high mana regen to use that regen to get defense. It is you who are reading into Qarl saying that high level AA was not intended purely to be an always sustained thing that this means AA was not meant for high regen characters. It was, I clearly remember them saying it was at the time of release.

proof ? I got mine

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What you say about fixing eb, they didnt fix it, they destroyed it. You never just took eb and that solved everything and let you run AA, use MoM etc, thats nonsense. You took inner force, devotion and took every bit of mana regen you could get your hands on along with getting mana regen stats on lots of your gear and feeding it a ton of es from your gear. Its not just take eb and youre done, thats not true at all.

we're going back to the last discussion we've had. last time I challenged anyone to name some caster life-based build that would be better off NOT taking EB. Im still waiting btw

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Sry if me disagreeing with you has offended you, but I disagree with just about everything you just said, completely.

it doesnt really offend me, as an engineer I meet a lot of people who use product I wrote who think they know better how it works. the key word being 'think'

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these are the devs that said people wont be able to get lvl4 enlightens in temp leagues because they wont exist there. I have level4 empowers from temp leagues, why wont lvl4 enlightens exist? they may not exist historically because no one is prioritizing getting lvl4 enlightens, they will exist now.

iirc they didnt say they wont exist, they said there wont be enough to matter and they are right. getting them requires so much investment and luck, there wont be too many. it requires a lucky gemcutters and tons of grinding.

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The devs who said "years from now when people create perfect versions of the new weapon bases..." years... not days as is the reality, years... because they know everything right?

they were right until they introduced a mechanic that fucked it up. they said road to 100 should take ages, because of maps system, which they redid.
do you know WHY they did all of these changes ? to appease people who qq'd about crafting and map systems. if they stuck to their design, what they said would STILL be true. and I have good memory, I remember which side you were on in the map debate

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Snorkle_uk написал:

so what you are saying is the devs can finally design mana degen skills... in a thread where we discuss how they have removed the only existing mana degen skill and made it a mana % reserve?

seriously?

like ive said- I dont think AA change was necessary with the EB change.

my posts in this thread were purely about devs intentions for the skill in the first place, and then the EB change. I never said I like the AA change. but its their viewpoint and I respect it - because in their decisions theyve made overwhelmingly positive ones compared to bad ones.

unlike some people, I dont throw tantrums when there are changes I disagree with- the most I'll do is make a thread where I civilly present my case and state my point (like for example ele prolif nerf) not a like scorned lover, but rather a lawyer logically presenting his case. I dont make idle threats or attention whore to get 'noticed' by GGG and make them change anything. thats their job to make decisions in THEIR game. if anything theyre being too lenient with people who qq all the time, Id stop taking them seriously a long time ago.