How can we fix Hierophant?
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Hierophant is a high-skill-required do-not-take-hasty-assuptions class.
1) Totems. people are obsessed with 'less' damage on them but they do not get that the numbers are pretty meaningless in practice. what matters is 'coverage' (because totems already have ENOUGH damage) - being able to cast totems around when needed is very good clear speed increase in practice (and vs bosses it is almost unfair when these poor bastards run from one to another..). Totems can be used as a main skill or can be used sporadically. The 'damage bonus' other ascendancies get is in most cases overkill during normal mapping - we DO NOT NEED more damage, killing in one hit is already enough - and overkill damage can hurt (reflect). This damage bonus works when it is needed - vs bosses and tough rares/exiles/warbands. It is perfect. But most players wont even test it because this 'less' nonsense. Guys, this 'less' does not matter! 2) MoM. MoM - when build properly (that is with %damage gained as mana! leech/regen is NOT the way to build MoM!) reads 'X reduced damage'. It is one of the best defence mechanics in the game - but it requires building around. It is again something that requires a) bit of math b) not being greedy. The 10% mini-MoM node is kind of a trap. on a non-prepared build this node is dangerous (can run you out of mana and kill you quickly). Picking it up without a though given on a MoM build is even more dangerous. But on a build that invested into %damage gained as mana it is like free Fortify. Charges and 5Link ascendancies are straight forward that leaves us with that last one: 50% reduced mana cost 50% reduced mana cost on full ES 25% max mana gained as ES It is very cool but it 'eats itself': 50% mana cost reduction is rather useless because all MoM builds have lots of free mana that is replenished with hits + regen so we do not really care about mana costs. Practical uses are limited to two: - aura totems (cool, and pretty useful from time to time) - Vertex mask (it has 50% mana cost reduction there as well) for 0 mana cost skills all the time. after that one can toy with jewels altering mana costs but MoM/%damage taken as mana are very jewel-socket starved already 50% reduced 'rarely' (full ES) - is too rare to really care imho. there might be some pre-fight casts or whatnot (aura totems again) but this is too niche to be even called a niche scenario 25% max mana as ES suffers from math behind it. it is a potent stat for characters with like 2000+ mana. but the value gained as ES is dissapointing because it is not 'base ES' but 'resulting' ES. it is not free Discipline note: i play MoM builds (two of them) and both are life/ES hybrids and i have no problem with MoM working only after ES is depleted. whats more i play them both as ZO so im pretty much never on 0 life. It is far tankier than some EB tricks people try to pull. |
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" Wait a moment... I am honestly a bit confused now. The wiki says the following: " Isn't this saying that the 25% mana gained as ES is working just like base ES would? On a more general note: Why not "fix" Hierophant? Because it isn't "broken". [quote="ScrotieMcB"]It's just, like, people's opinions, man.
But I cannot respect motherf♪♫♫♪rs calling something a simulator, when it isn't one.[/quote] Mors edited this post first. |
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" And that's exactly why the 8% is just shit. Calling a brainless totem class high skilled is another matter. Coverage during mapping is not needed, because totems clear anything anyway. Just as you said. You need a maximum of two totems for that. One to place into / near the pack, and one to back you up if you really want to. Totems beyond that do not increase your clear speed. The rest of the ascendancy just deals with the inherent flaws of having multiple totems, mana and cast speed. Additionally it gives the worst kind of hybrid defense. Hierophant is just a shitty and gimmicky totem class. Every other class has better damage, clear speed and defense. |
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Some thoughts where hierophant is good at-
- I have met player using him as romiras banquet flicker strike permanent immortal call build. -it's quite cheap and popular in hardcore as totem build (regarding build list in forums). -he can wear kaom's heart, use 40% MoM and dual wield void batteries while having six link in helmet. -It's cheap again at going low life, can go there with solaris lorica by compensating es loss with mana pool at some extent. Also helps sustaining mana. Al thou i haven't yet seen a build taking full advantage of sanctuary of thought and divine guidance and performing well. Последняя редакция: Andrius319#4787. Время: 29 окт. 2016 г., 06:59:31
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if you do not like it - do not play it.
i do not agree with your conclusion in the last sentence - esp the defence department. clear speed also doesnt disappoint. fun observation: this is your first post in this thread and it attacks me directly. maybe you can add something of substance into the topic besides 'your wrong, im right'? |
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" In terms of actual power and such, mana to life conversion or addition might be fine. However, considering GGG has not put any extra life on ascendancies (which is odd because a few classes get extra ES out the ass) such an idea would probably not happen. The mana to life regen idea probably won't work considering the different scaling and such for life regen compared to mana regen. That 400% mana regen person you mentioned would have 5*1.75, or 8.75% mana regen since 1.75% per second is the baseline regen. Base life regen is 0, so trying to get life regen out of mana regen is difficult. There's also the issue that life regen isn't actually that good of a defense. It's more of a utility to get other things like Blood Rage or Righteous Fire. One of the things I've wondered about is whether having Sanctuary of Thought convert half of life regen into ES regen would make things interesting. Such a mechanic would be useful for both hybrid life/ES builds as well as EB builds. |
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" Juggernaut gets a better fortify. Chieftain gets more strength. Slayer gets a much better leech and less reflect damage taken. Gladiator gets spellblock and generally pretty good block. And there's a lot more... So, for would-be life based archetypes there is quite a bit of survivability to be had. It's just that you won't read "more life" anywhere. At least that's how I see it. Granted, there are quite a few situational things here and there, and life is not as good as ES for obvious reasons, but the framwork that comes with certain ascendancy classes is conceptually good. The actual problem is the life/ES balance, which never really existed in this game, and some mechanics that, for some reason, do not work as intended, i.e. the armour ignoring minotaur rocks. [quote="ScrotieMcB"]It's just, like, people's opinions, man.
But I cannot respect motherf♪♫♫♪rs calling something a simulator, when it isn't one.[/quote] Mors edited this post first. |
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" I don't have a Hierophant, but I've seen multiple screenshots and forum threads that the 'extra' (key word here) ES is in fact NOT base ES. People often compare it with the Guardian's Radiant Faith ('grants maximum energy shield equal to 15% of your reserved mana') which DOES grant base ES. The wiki is indeed very misleading on this one. That equation is very confusing. It's essentially saying that your 'increases maximum energy shield' modifiers are added to your 'increases maximum mana' modifiers to get a number that is higher than your actual maximum mana, which you THEN take 25% of to get the 'extra' ES. So basically, if you invest in 'increase maximum ES' nodes, it would indirectly affect Sanctuary of Thought's extra ES by modifying BASE MANA instead of ES. Edit: Upon a closer look, what if we've been thinking this the wrong way? We thought Sanctuary of Thought would make us be able to invest less into mana. What if it's the other way around, and it actually is more beneficial to invest more into mana? Just looking at the tree, we could take all the 'increased mana' nodes to get 297% increased maximum mana and 36% increased maximum ES. We could invest heavily into INT. If we have 2000 INT, that would mean 1000 base mana and 400% inc ES. We would get roughly 1000 x 8.33 x 0.25 = ~2082 ES...yeah it's still meh. Now, it would be a different story if we could go past the 40% MoM effect into something significantly higher (like 80% damage taken from mana before life) and THEN invest heavily into mana and ES and go EB. My summoner guide: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1765329 My shop thread: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1748967 Последняя редакция: Kaz2ndChance#7554. Время: 29 окт. 2016 г., 12:09:26
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on funny note:
hierophant has his place in this game:P no mana cost and totems allowing to recharge es. @Kaz2ndChance it is currently possible to get to 65% mom (with legacy cloak of defiance), i have tried 62% and one of the issues it meets is that mom does not mitigate damage over time like poison, bleed, corrupting blood, vortex, half malachai's attacks and etc. Besides that maybe it could work with grandspectrum jewels, haven't tested yet. Последняя редакция: Andrius319#4787. Время: 29 окт. 2016 г., 15:38:31
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that's a perfect map for my summoner to do :p
@Andrius319 lol just for shits and giggles, I threw together a lv100 skill tree that gets all the efficient mana, ES, and jewel nodes, including MoM and EB: it has +1039.5 mana (from 333 INT and 100 levels), +60 mana from bandit, +293% inc. max mana, +93% inc. max ES, +66.6% inc max ES (from 333 INT), and 14 Grand Spectrums (+2940 mana). It totals to 4039.5 base mana x 0.25 x 5.53 = 5,584.6 extra ES If you assume heavy investment into INT and bump it up from 333 to say...1000 INT, it'd be 4373 base mana x 0.25 x 6.86 = 7500 extra ES My summoner guide: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1765329 My shop thread: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1748967 Последняя редакция: Kaz2ndChance#7554. Время: 29 окт. 2016 г., 16:20:50
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