How can we fix Hierophant?

Let's say you have 100% increased maximum Mana, 100% increased maximum Energy Shield, and 800 base Mana. Because of the 100% increase, you'll see 1600 maximum Mana in your globe. However, converting 25% of the 800 base gives 200 base ES, which then gets an effective 200% increase to get 600 final bonus to ES.

What DOES NOT happen is: 25% of 1600 gives +400 ES, +100% increased to 800 ES.

At least, that's how it should work.

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Kaz2ndChance написал:

that's a perfect map for my summoner to do :p

@Andrius319
lol just for shits and giggles, I threw together a lv100 skill tree that gets all the efficient mana, ES, and jewel nodes, including MoM and EB: it has +1039.5 mana (from 333 INT and 100 levels), +60 mana from bandit, +293% inc. max mana, +93% inc. max ES, +66.6% inc max ES (from 333 INT), and 14 Grand Spectrums (+2940 mana).

It totals to 4039.5 base mana x 0.25 x 5.53 = 5,584.6 extra ES

If you assume heavy investment into INT and bump it up from 333 to say...1000 INT,
it'd be 4373 base mana x 0.25 x 6.86 = 7500 extra ES

How much damage nodes did you pick up though?

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ScrotieMcB написал:

Let's say you have 100% increased maximum Mana, 100% increased maximum Energy Shield, and 640 base Mana. Because of the 100% increase, you'll see 1280 maximum Mana in your globe. However, converting 25% of the 640 base gives 160 base ES, which then gets an effective 200% increase to get 480 final bonus to ES.

At least, that's how it should work.

Yes, and it's because both the amount is so marginal and that ES has no interaction with MoM that I made this thread to begin with. We already have Occultist along with Trickster and Saboteur that deal with more ES. It would be nice to have some more flavor with a mana->life conversion for Hierophant. It would also tie in well with the MoM builds.

I edited the post before this one because, with the +150 Mana from a previous node, you pretty much couldn't build an endgame Hierophant with less than 800 base Mana.

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Tsokushin написал:

How much damage nodes did you pick up though?

None.

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ScrotieMcB написал:

Let's say you have 100% increased maximum Mana, 100% increased maximum Energy Shield, and 800 base Mana. Because of the 100% increase, you'll see 1600 maximum Mana in your globe. However, converting 25% of the 800 base gives 200 base ES, which then gets an effective 200% increase to get 600 final bonus to ES.

What DOES NOT happen is: 25% of 1600 gives +400 ES, +100% increased to 800 ES.

At least, that's how it should work.

Yup, that's exactly how it works. Another way to look at it is, the 100% increased maximum ES is applied to base mana at 25% effectiveness, so: 100% x .25 = 25% of 800 base mana = 200 ES

So 1600 mana globe x 25% = 400 + 200 = 600.

I find it rather weird that the Hierophant is supposed to be hybrid life/ES class when all the hybrid life/ES nodes are on the opposite side of the templar starting zone.

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sidtherat написал:

2) MoM. MoM - when build properly (that is with %damage gained as mana! leech/regen is NOT the way to build MoM!) reads 'X reduced damage'. It is one of the best defence mechanics in the game - but it requires building around.

Two provisos here:

1) It is only x% reduced damage *when hit*. It doesn't work against DoT.
2) It doesn't stack additively with other sources of reduced damage taken.

All i know is that with my 200 ES from items and my 2,6k mana reduced whit Voll Protector to 2,1k i have 1700+ ES whit out a single ES node increase.

Some scaling come from Int. ofcors but in comparison my Ocultist (+100 eS) i leveling curently have taken loots of ES nodes and run Discipline and it now have 1700 ES. Can not tell if ES from mana is added as flat ES for purpose of scaling but thats still impresive.

I can not tell whay people are upset on interaction of MoM and ES. MoM is excelent defence and having free 1,7k ES is great. Nobady cry when Jugeranut get duble armor on chest but people cry when they get almost 2k free ES

Also if you do not go MoM and decide to got ES only you do not need to wory of 10% MoM becouse that only worck on Life. I realy dont see whay people dont like free stuf and options.

Edit:
Damn i lied. I got some Es scaling from hibrid nodes (35%) from shadow side and 10% from templar notable. But still i not gone of my way to get them so thets even better.

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nEVER_BoRN написал:

All i know is that with my 200 ES from items and my 2,6k mana reduced whit Voll Protector to 2,1k i have 1700+ ES whit out a single ES node increase.

Some scaling come from Int. ofcors but in comparison my Ocultist (+100 eS) i leveling curently have taken loots of ES nodes and run Discipline and it now have 1700 ES. Can not tell if ES from mana is added as flat ES for purpose of scaling but thats still impresive.

I can not tell whay people are upset on interaction of MoM and ES. MoM is excelent defence and having free 1,7k ES is great. Nobady cry when Jugeranut get duble armor on chest but people cry when they get almost 2k free ES

Also if you do not go MoM and decide to got ES only you do not need to wory of 10% MoM becouse that only worck on Life. I realy dont see whay people dont like free stuf and options.

Edit:
Damn i lied. I got some Es scaling from hibrid nodes (35%) from shadow side and 10% from templar notable. But still i not gone of my way to get them so thets even better.

You think a 1.7k ES buffer is impressive? Juggernaut gets double armour all the time; what happens when you run out of ES and are under heavy fire?

Just to give you a comparison. My Whispering Ice build uses the Guardian's Radiant Faith and Unwavering Faith. When all my auras are up, reserving 2721/2899 mana gives me 2350 ES, and reserving 98% of my life gives me 28% physical dmg reduction. I have 0 investment in ES nodes, but I have 2235 INT. So in total, I have 10,380 ES that I can leech back up instantly with VP...

Just in comparation my 44% MoM with 5 endurance charges and 4k Life with esitmated 85% all resist end game realy wont be impresed.
People think ES and VP are strong, relasing that having MoM behinde ES is what actualy is that bring Life to same level. ES builds are just one option and options are good.

Having MoM act like resistance or extra life for thos famous One shotsts. If my character curently take 4K mitigated damage i only luse 2k, ES build take full blown 4k ES damage. But wait thats not all, next time im hit i still take only 2k i always take only part of it on life so leeching with VP is easyer then doing duble job with ES.
Conclusion, MoM make Life strong and ES still got its benefits.

Question mostly come to Hibrid builds, i think they are still wery good but like gearing ES char or MoM character it is not easy. You have beneftis but to utilise them to maximum potencial you need to get invested. Its way stronger in end im sure of it. When you utilse all Hierophant can offer to your fulest its power rise exponencialy. Having 28% phus reduction is nice but MoM worck on ele damage also and you cant realy get more auras.

Trick with Hierophant come to how many aspect you can functionaly use same time and in your example you do just that but you need to cosider how it can be also done with Hierophant.
Even tho its harder its still worth it more in the end.

Im geting litle lost in this debate so sory if i miss the spot. All i can say in my opinion free stuf is good and how mach aspects you can use from ascendency is indicator of how mach power you gona get from it. Question most of time thats relevant is can you get it some other way, if not then you should worck most of it to your advantage. I cant speek mach for ES builds or totem builds but my char using almost 100% of what ascendency offered me and im not disapointed.

I think people dont accept Hierophant what he actualy is and then tray to fix it on their image and get frustrated. Like some one say before this ascendency is ment for more expirianced players who know how to make most of it or easy and cheep solution to get started.
Like pathfinder is a ranger but more expirianced players make most efective CI builds of it so bare this in minde when people say that Hierophant is do-not-take-hasty-assuptions class.

I can't criticize you too much since I don't have a Hierophant and you do. Well, if you feel like it's decent, then good for you I guess. Can you do high-level mapping with that char though?

Edit: moved a page