How can we fix Hierophant?

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Boem написал:

This is false.

Since it doesn't apply to chaos damage. MoM is a solid defensive buffer for hybrid characters against incomming chaos hit's.

Peace,

-Boem-

There's very few chaos 1 shots. In any case, a hybrid character has neither the effective HP as pure ES, nor the tools that are concentretad to replenish effective HP to full every time. What I mean by this is a hybrid character would need Vaal discipline, health pot, and mana while something say pure health or pure ES would only need Health Pots or Vaal discipline. There's also CI.

That's the reason for suggesting a Mana->life conversion to streamline Hierophant Defense and also increase effective HP.

Something like "MoM works with ES too".

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Tsokushin написал:

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sidtherat написал:

this is your opinion - my experience shows it does not match the reality.

do you have any experience in the subject you are so vigorously discussing? your characters list show 4characters, 1 of them being end-game. is this entire discussion based on 'someone soemwhere said something' evidence/experience?

Are you disputing the fact that MoM does not affect ES outside of EB? Because this isn't an opinion, it's a fact. ES needs to be fully depleted for MoM to take effect when you don't have EB.

im saying that you armchair-theorycrafting stuff you have no experience with is getting old.

characters are not so single-dimensional as you want them to be. mechanics are not working in vacuum - on the contrary. character or in general - defensive strategy - can be only judged as a whole and only after giving it a fair shot. you repeat stories of others. stories that are so far off that it is tiresome to dispel them all

but in short:

your view of hybrid builds is WRONG. it is the same theory stuff you can 'read' everywhere yet life/es hybrids (esp evasive ones) are EXTREMELY strong and viable. if the user knows what he is doing..

your MoM review is tainted by the stuff you read/hear around. try it out. then talk.


i made a mistake of not checking your characters before participating. now that i know that you speak out of experience of others i regret even participating this theorycrafting rant

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sidtherat написал:

im saying that you armchair-theorycrafting stuff you have no experience with is getting old.

characters are not so single-dimensional as you want them to be. mechanics are not working in vacuum - on the contrary. character or in general - defensive strategy - can be only judged as a whole and only after giving it a fair shot. you repeat stories of others. stories that are so far off that it is tiresome to dispel them all

but in short:

your view of hybrid builds is WRONG. it is the same theory stuff you can 'read' everywhere yet life/es hybrids (esp evasive ones) are EXTREMELY strong and viable. if the user knows what he is doing..

your MoM review is tainted by the stuff you read/hear around. try it out. then talk.


i made a mistake of not checking your characters before participating. now that i know that you speak out of experience of others i regret even participating this theorycrafting rant

This is your video right? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDZJRJkCYcw&feature=youtu.be&t=25

This is your thread right? https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1633990

I'll reiterate what was said in your thread that long ago. You're overhyping es/hybrid builds.

"1. Leech+Ghost reaver is mandatory. Without it, you will run around with your ES down most of the time.

2.good high-end hybrid gear was always really hard to get (in the min/max phase), especially if you also want armour or evasion hybrid gear instead of pure ES/life gear.
If you are going Hybrid, you need that T1 life roll AND a T1 flat ES roll AND at least a lower tier %ES roll AND you need an additional Chaos resist suffix on top of your normal resist rolls

4. You need much more passive points for the hybrid build.

5. Pure ES will free up at least 1 additional flask slot (maybe even pure life for that matter with enough regen)"

Now, given your experience on the matter, I'll continue. This is a thread about Hierophant. You expect a Hierophant to go out of his way to go all the way over to that side of the tree and work his way down right to the ranger to make a gimmick hybrid life/es/evade build that is either 1 entropy roll or 1 Resolute Technique monster from experiencing true pain.

Given that it's a templar, it can still stack the many many forms of block, but again, we're talking about a Hierophant. A Guardian has block thrown at him in his Ascendancy tree in addition to the further forms of mitigation and auras and also the free ES thrown at him for just using auras. A Hierophant does not have much in the way of extra damage compared to a Guardian, and a lot less survivability.

And, rather than conflating the defenses of a Hierophant, trying to stack life, ES, Mana, Armor/block, Sanctity of Thought could simply be changed into a mana->life conversion, making either extremely durable pure life builds, or even tankier MoM builds (and EB if you wanted to invest in ES). That would be a much better solution rather than the conflicting ES+MoM effect we have now that has no use outside of chaos damage hits.

as long as you have ZERO personal experience you should refrain from talking about this stuff. it is getting you nor anyone else nowhere

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sidtherat написал:

as long as you have ZERO personal experience you should refrain from talking about this stuff. it is getting you nor anyone else nowhere

The numbers and mechanics don't lie. And you got a guy who has played similar builds telling you the downsides to it.

Lets be clear, we are aware that hybrid es/life/ev or ci/ev builds can work very well and also we do know about that damage taken gained as mana working setup. The core thing is- hierophant and not the existing viable setups.

That 10% MoM node..

It is possible to make build work well with es/life/10%_mom (maybe getting evasion too by distorting tree), but there are ways in getting small amounts of MoM from other sources which means that it is not meant to play hiero at 10% MoM (since u can get that 10% or similar amount from elsewhere and use other ascendancy, even if you would not be able to get from elsewhere, that 10% alone is just too weak for ascendancy node).
So this leads to that that you should use 40% or more MoM because being lower makes no sense, but then being at 40%+ opens up a whole new level of requirements with high chance of making just half-assed build in comparison of other available ones.

From what i know you can only gain up to 5% from helm coruption and with unique amulet you can gain 1% for each power charge. So i dont think its that easy. Templar got so mach mana regeneration that 10% MoM should never be a problem in most scenarios and with minimum invesment you can get nice 10% mitigation.

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Andrius319 написал:

Lets be clear, we are aware that hybrid es/life/ev or ci/ev builds can work very well and also we do know about that damage taken gained as mana working setup. The core thing is- hierophant and not the existing viable setups.

That 10% MoM node..

It is possible to make build work well with es/life/10%_mom (maybe getting evasion too by distorting tree), but there are ways in getting small amounts of MoM from other sources which means that it is not meant to play hiero at 10% MoM (since u can get that 10% or similar amount from elsewhere and use other ascendancy, even if you would not be able to get from elsewhere, that 10% alone is just too weak for ascendancy node).
So this leads to that that you should use 40% or more MoM because being lower makes no sense, but then being at 40%+ opens up a whole new level of requirements with high chance of making just half-assed build in comparison of other available ones.

It's because of the 10% MoM node and the existence of MoM in the regular tree that I proposed a mana->life conversion instead of ES. It'd be simple to code for, and it'd help in itemizing Hierophant defenses.

But again, I have no idea why people are prone to dispute a mana->life conversion instead when nearly any other build can accomplish hybrid or ci builds with much greater efficiency than a Hierophant.

Mana to life conversion will be build limiting and out of Templar forte of life/ES/MoM.
ES is more balanced option that provinde better build deversity, people posting here have done some impresive build like RF ES builds.
MoM is a life, its way better then life. ES is a bonus for life build and its also difrent way of going ES or hibrid builds where MoM provide some chaos damage defences.

Hierophant is generaly stronges Life/MoM build but it also have options that will be gone with what you propose and they also generaly make MoM characters less tanky. Having ES buffer is great thing for VP/ZO and in general.

I personaly finde 1700 ES on my VP Hierophant to save me tons of flask charges becouse i hardly take random damage that will penetrate it and traps in Lab or similar demage sorces will criple me if not so.
To gain such high ES with out ascendency will be hard for me and it also will reduce effectivnes of hibrid Life/ES and Life/Mana nodes from skill tree, Jewels, Life/Mana/ES on items and all cucle of sinergy scaling efective life. If Mana to Life is to hapen it wont be even close to ES we geting now and we lose so mach build deversity.

End game items like Atziri's Acuity will also reduce in power becouse if you dont have high ES whats the point in ZO. Ther is many benefits in having options and curent scaling is wery beneficial for loot of builds, all that will be gona with mana to life you propose.