How would you feel if all Leech was changed to flat values

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xMustard написал:

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I_NO написал:

You're not even understanding anything of what we just told you dude lol It's like w/e the fuck we say it like just passes through you and you're like ??????????????????????????????

riveting tale ole chap

And you told me I'm talking shit least I do with subtly.

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xMustard написал:

its one or the other based on other factors. right now damage is out of control so life is too weak in that you basically can never get tanky enough. this means instant life leech is required to immediately fully recover anything that doesn't one shot you because you can't afford to take two-three hits.
however that mechanic for ES is way too strong, to a point where you basically can't die because with ES you can get enough pool to survive anything. follow along buddy theres more than just one point in play here

I might agree with some of your points, but writing that you don't give a fuck, almost tells me that you don't know. But if you've tried both types of builds against most things the game has to throw at you, then OK.

But tell me, as you feel life is too weak; what would nerfing ES achieve for life builds? The knowledge that everyone is as fucked as you are? Going ES is a choice, you know.

In my eyes, both types of builds have to be tweaked. And I give a fuck.

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adghar написал:

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xMustard написал:

if thats the case then i want my double legacy BoR 98% physical avoidance

dear god. Is that 75% dodge 75% block 68% evasion? that's massive.

btw slight nitpick it's not physical avoidance it's Attack avoidance. there's no avoidance mecchanicc for physical in this game

yes you're right. and ya it was 75/75 block, about 55% evasion, some dodge (i forget the values at the time), and blind.

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I might agree with some of your points, but writing that you don't give a fuck, almost tells me that you don't know. But if you've tried both types of builds against most things the game has to throw at you, then OK.

But tell me, as you feel life is too weak; what would nerfing ES achieve for life builds? The knowledge that everyone is as fucked as you are? Going ES is a choice, you know.

In my eyes, both types of builds have to be tweaked. And I give a fuck.

well i honestly don't care if anything happens or not because i'll always play this game and i'll always play what i thin is fun and continue thinking up my own builds etc.

what would nerfing ES achieve for life builds? nothing, life builds would still be as fucked as they are, absolutely, but what it does is not FORCE you to be an ES build if you wanna farm shaper deathless.
right now if you want to consistently do end content you must be ES. period.

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xMustard написал:

what would nerfing ES achieve for life builds? nothing, life builds would still be as fucked as they are, absolutely, but what it does is not FORCE you to be an ES build if you wanna farm shaper deathless.
right now if you want to consistently do end content you must be ES. period.

So what your saying, is that if it's impossible for some builds, it should be impossible for all builds, and we might even remove the whole encounter from the game?

I think what your searching for, is a life buff.

And please, if you are to debate mechanics on the forums, start caring. I don't see much point in doing it unless you care.

You first have to decide where you want to go:

1- Do you want to eliminate 'excessive tanking' ---> nerf ES+VP combo
2- Do you want to allow other options for 'excessive tanking' ---> buff life/other defenses


Looks like the healthier solution is 2.

You can't simply buff 'raw' life to ES levels because of redundancy, that's clear.

You can't have 100% block/dodge for obvious reasons. Let's (stupidly) say they are capped at 99%. It takes ONE unlucky 'fail' to end up with the player saying 'that's it! I'm going ES next time!'. Sooner or later we'd be back to square one. Block and dodge will always be 'additional layers' of defense (and not central, unless you don't mind the occasional but inevitable K.O.), as you know already.
I'm referring to 'dodge' and not making the distinction to 'evasion'. I know the difference but it doesn't add to the point now. Let's call the whole thing 'non-blocking avoidance' if you feel picky.

Ok then, let's see what can be done about armor. You could soften the diminishing returns and allow armor characters to perform better against heavy hitters (so it doesn't feel 'over-expensive and disappointing'). Now their effective life pool is similar to ES based characters versus the physical heavy hitters, but the problem is still elemental damage because both HP and ES have the same resistances cap.
Armor should increase max resistances to deal with that issue. Alternatively, endurance charges could increase max res for LIFE based only.

The goal is to 'keep gameplay as it is' (don't eliminate tanking to force everyone into distance+lots of moving around only) while giving other viable alternatives, ideally requiring similar levels of investment regarding passive skill points and gear availability.
You could (?) simply have DPS to wipe every boss the game has to offer before he has time to do anything but I won't cover that point since I don't find it interesting.


Conclusion: ARMOR must be improved.

I've seen this suggested before, the question is why the developers disagree.

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BacktoHell написал:

Conclusion: ARMOR must be improved.

I've seen this suggested before, the question is why the developers disagree.

Player defenses is like anthrax to GGG. Look at the abuse rumi's has taken.

Simply, put, they do not want players to be able to resist damage through hard mitigation or even through rng mitigation.

Yo fucking Rumi's got D E S T R O Y E D

LMAO

It's like they abused it...you know then abused it some more then abused it using a nail.

Yep a nail.

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ya? and im sure people quit from the FIX to blade vortex (wasn't a nerf). so what?

Changing a skill gem is significantly less disruptive to the average player than nerfing important keystones and/or game mechanics.

They could delete BV and BF for all I'd care, but if they made the game unplayable by destroying the only means of staying alive I wouldn't be playing for long.

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xMustard написал:

EDIT: just to sum up I_NO's posts from all around the other threads, and everyone elses as well on this matter, we have two ways of playing this game.
#1 you get enough DPS to kill everything before it has a chance to hit you
#2 you get enough ES (not possible with life) to survive anything that hits you and ghost reaver+VP. doesn't matter what your DPS is.

so either high DPS or high ES. this is currently the only way to survive this game and actually do all content.

Funny, my go-to guy for difficult bosses is my totem chieftain who uses life/armour as defense. He doesn't have particularly high DPS (around 50k maybe) nor high life (5k) but thanks to the mitigation from armour and endurance charges he's my most resilient character. Granted the totems take a lot of the heat, but still this conforms to neither of your "only two ways" to survive.

Leech is fine. Hit rates of certain spells are issue. The whole reason ppl can face tank with BV and not say Ice Nova or Vortex is hit rate so you don't take 2-3 subsequent hits in a row before replenish. BV will get its hit rate toned down again.

Perfect example of this in action is new CoC @500ms or mojo @ 250 ms. They slowed us down makes face tanking less viable even with all the leech in the world.