NEED AUCTION HOUSE FFS

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Pizzarugi написал:

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nadakuu написал:

at some point you have to consider if this is a trading simulator or an arpg.
content should not be locked behind whispering 20 people to play for 5 minutes.

Very much this.

If GGG insists that trading be a core aspect of the game, then it needs to be accessible to everyone, not just to price fixers and the handful who know how to game the system.

Yes!!

GGG admits in it's own trade manifesto that the percentage of people who trade is tiny, and that those who do engage in trade have a massive advantage over others and progress further through the game.

Yet, they say this is a bad thing. I would think more people experiencing more content is a good thing.

Some quotes from the GGG Trade Manifesto.

"Items are a player's reward for playing Path of Exile. They're the primary way of measuring progress in a league." Really??? I measure my progress based on what level I am and how much content I have completed. Not what gear I have.

"The acquisition of items is why people play Action RPGs." Not for me. The acquisition of items facilitates progression through the games content, and experiencing the content is the primary reason I play the game. Maybe there are people who play to acquire items. I don't speak for them.

"The ability to trade any item is a fundamental part of why people enjoy playing Path of Exile - if you're lucky, you can find amazing stuff that you can trade for all the items needed to create an entire new character build." Bingo! Some people want to trade so they can experiment with builds that would otherwise be impossible from the drops they get access to.

"Easy trade reduces the number of times a character improves their items." How has this conclusion been made? This seems totally illogical. Easy trade allows for me to buy a variety of different items and switch them in and out in different combinations to experiment with a variety of different builds.

"People who are heavily engaged in trade perform fewer item upgrades to achieve their final build."
People who are following a prescribed build perform fewer item upgrades. The more heavily I engage in trade, the greater number of items I am buying. Duh! This is just totally illogical and no justification or explanation is provided to show this claim has any basis in reality. Reason and logic would suggest people buy stuff for the purpose of equipping it.

"Simply put, their character progression is more about trading than it is about getting items from monsters." Um, actually, for some people progression is working ones way through content, not acquiring items. The purpose of items is to facilitate progression through content, which is why we engage in trade. We engage in trade because if we had to rely on drops from monsters, some of us would never progress through the content. I speak for myself.

"Easy trade means reducing drop rates." No it doesn't. This is a design decision by GGG, not an absolute reality.

"Easy trade would make the disparity between different players too great." What “disparity” are they talking about? The first two leagues I played, I didn't trade, and didn't get past tier one maps. Now that I am trading, I am up to T9 maps in this league. While there might be a greater disparity in wealth between high-end and low-end players as a result of trading, the disparity in how much content high and low end players can experience is reduced. As a low-end player, I much prefer to experience more content.

"Most players who play Path of Exile never trade." I would suggest this is because there are significant barriers to trading in game, even though a vocal part of the POE community refuse to acknowledge this. This could be tested by implementing an auction house for a league and seeing how that impacts on the percentage of people who trade. No-one has to trade if they don't want to.

"The significant differences in character power and player progression caused by trade has already created a situation where Path of Exile is very hard for some players and quite easy for others. Some people never stand a chance of seeing some of the Atlas of Worlds content, while others can rather quickly defeat it and are looking for new challenges. We're tentatively okay with the degree to which this occurs currently, but it would be much worse if trading were made substantially easier." There is no evidence or logic presented to substantiate the claim that easier trading would reduce this differential. Logic and my personal experience suggests the opposite is true. If low-end players are more easily able to acquire items that do not drop for them, then they have more capacity to experience more content. The only reason "ease of trading" would create the opposite scenario is the design decision by GGG that "Easy trade means reducing drop rates". That is a design decision, not a reality.

I love POE. I think the developers have done an exceptional job in creating a great game. But the trade manifesto really doesn't make a lot of sense. Most of the assertions it makes have no logical basis, and/or are preceded by statements that don't actually tie in to the assertions. Kind of like saying "frogs are green and so are some apples and that is why aeroplanes can fly and if we make red frogs then the planes won't fly anymore".

I still make room for the possibility that an auction house could change the game in undesirable ways that I cannot see. But as far as balancing the game so that more low-end players get to experience the atlas, reason, logic and my personal experience would suggest an auction house would facilitate rather than negate it. Unless of course, measures such as reducing drop rates in correlation with ease of trade are used to deliberately stifle it.

I remember GGG writing in a different post that the decision to not have an auction house was about culture, and I think that is probably more authentic than what is presented in the trade manifesto. There are some pluses about the way trading currently operates and I can understand some people wanting to retain that part of the culture. The human interaction can be nice. But the idea that hampering trade will make it easier for low-end players to experience more of the atlas does not seem right to me, when my personal experience, as a low-end player, has been totally opposite.

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aphfid написал:

this is so funny.

coz being a former programmer, nothing was more frustrating than fellow programmers who felt their own personal wants were more important than what the customer wants. and really, now that tencent are the majority shareholder, the "GGG vision" doesn't have any credibility any more.

But this is not about 'want', but that GGG has a much clearer view about what will attract players to the game.
They can accede to the (very) small vocal minority on the forums, or they can design the game for the large majority of players who're happily playing, using what they find, and only doing the occasional trade.
If they have to balance the game for the 'we want an AH now!' type of players (who're few in numbers, comparatively), they'll lose the much larger group of players who're solitary in nature and play for the joy in finding.
It really is as simple as that...

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aphfid написал:

i don't know that i support the idea of a permanent auction house, but isn't the whole point of three month leagues that we can try all sorts of things and then not continue them as standard?

having a league feature being only action house would be quite boring. also they can already test it - they have AH in XBox and China version of the game.

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aphfid написал:

as far as the GGG vision, that has no credibility now that tencent is the majority shareholder.

as was said in the news post, Tencent is not making any decisions in the main game and the China version has had AH for quite a long time already.

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aphfid написал:

a"bad league". auction house seems to be the single most requested feature and poor trading facilities the number one player gripe. i'm not closed to the possibility that auction house might change the dynamics in ways i can't see....i find it interesting that people are so opposed to even testing the idea...

as far as the GGG vision, that has no credibility now that tencent is the majority shareholder.

Aside from the lab, an AH might be the single most divisive topic as well. I supported GGG because they didn't just take the simple way to implement a trade system replacement, but rather kept the requirements of talking with another person to complete trades. Quite a lot of my friends list is full of people from trades from current\previous leagues.

As for testing the idea, both xbox and China realm is for that.

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Cyzax написал:

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aphfid написал:

this is so funny.

coz being a former programmer, nothing was more frustrating than fellow programmers who felt their own personal wants were more important than what the customer wants. and really, now that tencent are the majority shareholder, the "GGG vision" doesn't have any credibility any more.

But this is not about 'want', but that GGG has a much clearer view about what will attract players to the game.
They can accede to the (very) small vocal minority on the forums, or they can design the game for the large majority of players who're happily playing, using what they find, and only doing the occasional trade.
If they have to balance the game for the 'we want an AH now!' type of players (who're few in numbers, comparatively), they'll lose the much larger group of players who're solitary in nature and play for the joy in finding.
It really is as simple as that...

Were is your proof of your statement that this is a minority ?

i would say due to the low population of a game that has existed for so long comparative to those games that have an auction house type effect that this is actually causing less people to be attracted to the game.

Just because people accept the status qou does not mean people actually enjoy it or that it is the best option. From my experience of trying to get friends to come play this game , the response is always the same. it does not have an auction house , so i will pass, as people with jobs do not have time to play the trading game.

There is no way to say that the loss of the no life players would not be replaced by the appeciation of players with normal jobs and responsibilities. I would say these type of people actually have more disposable income in general.
At the very least , they should have an auction house for currency and content (maps , frags, etc).

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nadakuu написал:

Were is your proof of your statement that this is a minority ?

i would say due to the low population of a game that has existed for so long comparative to those games that have an auction house type effect that this is actually causing less people to be attracted to the game.

Just because people accept the status qou does not mean people actually enjoy it or that it is the best option. From my experience of trying to get friends to come play this game , the response is always the same. it does not have an auction house , so i will pass, as people with jobs do not have time to play the trading game.

There is no way to say that the loss of the no life players would not be replaced by the appeciation of players with normal jobs and responsibilities. I would say these type of people actually have more disposable income in general.
At the very least , they should have an auction house for currency and content (maps , frags, etc).

The majority of players, who are against AH, are against ANY trading and want play SSF game. Those, who want to trade and want current "trading system" over more convenient one (reffered as AH), are either botters, price Fixers, GGG or just mental masochists.

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l4luke написал:

Havn't logged on in 2 years and still no Auction House, that's the reason why i stopped playing, i spent more time searching items up than even playing the game, this game has turned to complete crap!!!

and unique's drop too easy, always sorting stash maps, bits and pieces out, cant even enjoy the freakin game, this game is too draining, until AH i will not play witch is sad as i bought a $700 pack years ago, what a waste of money :(

going to wait for D4, this is a joke, the higher ups control the price listing in this game and manipulate it wile alot others struggle to search up items price and sell, the higher ups gaining is other peoples misery.

riely wish they would sort something out but ....

Incase you live in a box GGG has expressed a dislike for auction house. Also saying they would never put an actual auction house into the game. They want players to actively communicate with others players instead of throw items in a box and wait for them to sell while never being active with others. They literally said this almost word for word. I dont exactly like the way trading is in this game cause so many people afk or never reply. But that's not GGG's fault thats the communities. Personally would prefer an auction house since people are stupid but yeah thats not gonna happen.

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MortalKombat3 написал:

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nadakuu написал:

Were is your proof of your statement that this is a minority ?

i would say due to the low population of a game that has existed for so long comparative to those games that have an auction house type effect that this is actually causing less people to be attracted to the game.

Just because people accept the status qou does not mean people actually enjoy it or that it is the best option. From my experience of trying to get friends to come play this game , the response is always the same. it does not have an auction house , so i will pass, as people with jobs do not have time to play the trading game.

There is no way to say that the loss of the no life players would not be replaced by the appeciation of players with normal jobs and responsibilities. I would say these type of people actually have more disposable income in general.
At the very least , they should have an auction house for currency and content (maps , frags, etc).

The majority of players, who are against AH, are against ANY trading and want play SSF game. Those, who want to trade and want current "trading system" over more convenient one (reffered as AH), are either botters, price Fixers, GGG or just mental masochists.

Wat!? WAT!!!????

I would hazard that the strongest contingent against an AH are the heavy traders and flippers, the Path of Trading types, the price fixers and the like, because and AH would dramatically change and in some cases eliminate their dominance in the "economy" of PoE.

These are the same people that are trying to convince you that there is no way an AH can exist without being exploited by bots and flippers. You see how that works? Sure, some past AHs have opened themselves to manipulation, but it does not have to be so.

These are also the same people that keep REEEEing about the failure of the D3 AH knowing very well that it had everything to do with shit game design (Inferno levels, great idea), real money and taxation issues and little to do with destroying the value of items/drops.

My opinion is that you've got it completely backwards. People don't play SSF because they are against trading, they play SSF because they hate the trade system in this game. I am, and have always been, in that contingent.

P.S. Just to clarify, I have no horse in this race. I will play regardless of change or no change. But the blatant manipulation of hearts and minds in this argument is getting pretty stronk.

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nadakuu написал:

Were is your proof of your statement that this is a minority ?

Direct quote from the development manifesto:

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Most players who play Path of Exile never trade. Out of the players who do trade, most only complete a few trades in a league. The subset of players who regularly trade strongly overlaps with our core reddit and forum communities