NEED AUCTION HOUSE FFS

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Pizzarugi написал:

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Cyzax написал:

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aphfid написал:

the existing trade system is cumbersome and intimidating

Yes... By design!... and it is working like a charm :-)

It is there for the simple reason that easy trade is detrimental to the play experience of the large majority of players who don't trade.

Why is it detrimental? Because with easy trade, GGG would have to balance after it, and that would mean the majority of their players couldn't actually play any more.

It's like the 1% vs. 99% tax discussion... The 1%'ers want their taxes lowered, and don't care about the ill effects on the 99%... the cook up some fake argument about tickle-down effects... Same attitude really...

Then wouldn't it just be easier to actually implement an SSF league that isn't just a thinly-veiled game mode for masochists? If GGG isn't interested in making trading accessible for everyone, despite the fact it's a core aspect of the game, then they should let people opt out of Path of Trading without punishing them for it.

The only punishment is the inability to trade or party and thats what you are signing up for lol

it's amazing how so many years later, people are still hung up on "player interaction."

1. like it's been said, the point wasn't conversations but to refrain from automation
2. communication is 2-way. i actually have had hundreds (maybe 1000+) of conversations from trade messages. but i'm not a freakin' robot and i don't pretend i'm a robot/other players are. often a little joke is all it takes. it's not like i go out of my way to talk to online strangers, either.

people want to pretend we're just robots and spam away, without caring about pissing off 20 people to trade with 1. ...and then they want to complain about AHs and insist that poe.trade is an AH and etc.

people aren't very smart.

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k1rage написал:

The only punishment is the inability to trade or party and thats what you are signing up for lol

That doesn't change what I said. SSF is just a thinly-veiled game mode for masochists. :P

Meanwhile, people who are disillusioned with this game's primitive trade mechanics and would rather not deal with that hot garbage still have no means to comfortably progress through the game without having to deal with it. Either an SSF gets implemented that actually rewards players for the time they put into playing the game, or trading needs to be made more accessible.

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Pizzarugi написал:

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k1rage написал:

The only punishment is the inability to trade or party and thats what you are signing up for lol

That doesn't change what I said. SSF is just a thinly-veiled game mode for masochists. :P

Meanwhile, people who are disillusioned with this game's primitive trade mechanics and would rather not deal with that hot garbage still have no means to comfortably progress through the game without having to deal with it. Either an SSF gets implemented that actually rewards players for the time they put into playing the game, or trading needs to be made more accessible.

its not thinly veiled at all it is straight up made to be the games hard mode

its not supposed to be a free loot mode and it should not be

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Pizzarugi написал:

Then wouldn't it just be easier to actually implement an SSF league that isn't just a thinly-veiled game mode for masochists?

SSF is perfectly playable, and it is easy for GGG to maintain. It doesn't require any different code except a single flag that turns off trading.
Implementing a new, differently balanced, SSF league is a whole different matter, requiring massive resources and investment... and there is no return on that investment.

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aphfid написал:

and so the purpose of a feedback forum is??? ...totally redundant according to you???

Did I say that? No... I simply pointed out why an AH is not possible.

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aphfid написал:

if the majority of players aren't interested in trade, then why aren't the majority playing ssf?

Because the default option is not SSF.

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aphfid написал:

it would be interesting to see an actual poll on the topic. maybe it is true that the majority of players don't want an auction house, but without an actual poll, we have no way of knowing. i suspect a poll would show that the majority do want an auction house, and i suspect for this reason most of the "no auction house" brigade would be unwilling to even support a poll on the topic.

Polls are one of the most terrible way to decide game features. Players are in general not capable of seeing further than their own nose on the practice of balancing a MMORPG... Just see how many players in this thread just want their AH, and are not willing to listen to why it is a bad idea :-)

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Cyzax написал:

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aphfid написал:

the existing trade system is cumbersome and intimidating

Yes... By design!... and it is working like a charm :-)

It is there for the simple reason that easy trade is detrimental to the play experience of the large majority of players who don't trade.

Why is it detrimental? Because with easy trade, GGG would have to balance after it, and that would mean the majority of their players couldn't actually play any more.

It's like the 1% vs. 99% tax discussion... The 1%'ers want their taxes lowered, and don't care about the ill effects on the 99%... the cook up some fake argument about tickle-down effects... Same attitude really...

uhuh. or maybe what is really going on is that making trade cumbersome is being detrimental to the play experience of the large majority of people who would like to trade, but don't because the facilities aren't in place.

given that you first asserted that the vast majority don't want to trade, and now you are saying the system is working perfectly to hamper people trading, maybe the fake arguments are being cooked up by the anti-auction-house brigade.

ggg doesn't have to balance for easier trade. the problem is they are trying to force a particular play experience on everyone - just like you are. you think that because you want to make the game hard for yourself, it should be that way for everyone.

but I just want to experience as much content as I can. I'm happy for you to totally ignore the existence of an auction house...but no...you can't do that. you say "i don't want an auction house so i don't want anyone else to benefit from having one".

it's kinda like saying "i'm choosing to stay indoors, so you can't go for a walk in the sun.".

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Cyzax написал:

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aphfid написал:

and so the purpose of a feedback forum is??? ...totally redundant according to you???

Did I say that? No... I simply pointed out why an AH is not possible.

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aphfid написал:

if the majority of players aren't interested in trade, then why aren't the majority playing ssf?

Because the default option is not SSF.

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aphfid написал:

it would be interesting to see an actual poll on the topic. maybe it is true that the majority of players don't want an auction house, but without an actual poll, we have no way of knowing. i suspect a poll would show that the majority do want an auction house, and i suspect for this reason most of the "no auction house" brigade would be unwilling to even support a poll on the topic.

Polls are one of the most terrible way to decide game features. Players are in general not capable of seeing further than their own nose on the practice of balancing a MMORPG... Just see how many players in this thread just want their AH, and are not willing to listen to why it is a bad idea :-)

awesome!! I will start a thread suggesting the default option when choosing a league be SSF. That should provide some real-life indication of how people feel about trading. Excellent observation.

I'm not suggesting a poll as the means of decision making. People keep on making the assertion that "the majority of people don't want to trade". How do we evaluate whether this is true or not? I think making SSF the default league would be a much better indicator. Anyone migrating from SSF to the standard challenge league would be indicating a desire to trade in a tangible way.

Are you willing to listen to the reasons why people want an auction house? I have read the detail regarding the trade manifesto. Have you looked at the GGG trade manifesto, and if so, have you critically evaluated the reasoning? It's pretty shabby.

Never understood the point of SSF, the same way I don't see the point of HC if you are going to use a logout macro. Just doing it 'publicly' for the sake of bragging that you are? Makes no sense to me.

At no point are you ever forced to trade with anyone, for anything, why does it need to be segregated in any way? Do people literally have zero self-control?

It seems to me like a complete waste of time and resources on their part.
Just don't whisper someone to trade if you don't want to trade, is it that hard?

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Chalace2 написал:

Never understood the point of SSF, the same way I don't see the point of HC if you are going to use a logout macro. Just doing it 'publicly' for the sake of bragging that you are? Makes no sense to me.

At no point are you ever forced to trade with anyone, for anything, why does it need to be segregated in any way? Do people literally have zero self-control?

It seems to me like a complete waste of time and resources on their part.
Just don't whisper someone to trade if you don't want to trade, is it that hard?

The problem is those who don't want to trade end up in the trade environment and then want to dictate the game experience for those who do want to trade, and want the trade mechanics simplified.

They think because they perceive they are making the game more challenging for themselves, that everyone else should have to face the same level of challenge they do. Problem is, people like me who want to see simplified trading and experience more of the content see them as sucking the fun out of the game we'd like to be playing.

They have a "we're not eating chocolate so no-one else can" type mentality. They think because they want to grind grind grind for maps, that their grinding experience, that they choose and desire, should be forced upon us, by making us send 5000 whispers to get a map - ensuring that we can't escape the grind, which is the whole reason we want to trade in the first place.

I have no objection to others rerunning the same zones over and over again to get a map if that is the playstyle they want. Problem is, they want us, who would rather spend our time experiencing more content and choosing to run the maps we enjoy, to have the same shitty grindy experience they do even though that isn't what we want.

Then they try to justify this by claiming that GGG would have to "rebalance" the game if trading was simplified, but that is just another way of saying "GGG is going to force the grindy experience on us even if trading is simplified by reducing the map drops so we have to go back to grinding". They say easier trade will make the game unplayable, but that is only because they want everyone to have the same experience they do. If we were all just simply left to play the game we want, then no rebalancing is required. But because some want to force their experience on others, we need separate environments so they don't feel hard done by, even though it's their own choice to grind.