Delve sucks

Personally I like the crawler and the encounters, I hate the exploration (due to flares, dynamite, darkness). But I agree with almost everything in the first post.

This league feels massively untested, or the game design has departed from good. Or both.

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kalbright написал:

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ffogell написал:

The problem is that their tester/dev are too experienced thus they dont test with the mindset of a new user but an experienced one (and they are better than the whole player base cause its their game)

This is a classic problem and that is why a lot of companies does playtest with people with zero knowledge of the game cause often something that seem obvious for a tester/dev might not be at all for the common player and this happens all the times

This is very true, and GGG is actually proud of it (boasting that only the top players are invited to test). This is why all the new content since streaming became a big thing is tuned toward meta clear speed as the testers only play that way and know how to do it. Relying on guys who only need 2 hours to speed rush a new character through act 10 will really skew your releases badly.

And, as a developer & designer (and QA tester) myself, that is the STUPIDEST thing (to do) that I have ever heard.

If you WANT a streaming/uberfast clear game, then ADVERTISE it as such. Don't make it out to be something it's not. Personally I find players like that to be reprehensible and antithetical to the very nature of "gaming". It's akin to putting pro-sports player against a high school team. It's just plain STUPID. And it is no defense of it.

You want to have testers who you do not know what they are going to do - THAT'S how you find the unconventional issues with a game.

Also, imho, "top" is 100% subjective. I don't consider these "speed" players to be game "players" at all - to me, they are a waste of time, nothing more.

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DeathStalker77 написал:

And, as a developer & designer (and QA tester) myself, that is the STUPIDEST thing (to do) that I have ever heard.

Excluding such players from testing would be the most stupid thing to do imho, without a doubt.

When you test something, ideall you need to have all kind of users testing it, to test as many case scenarios as you can.
If no efficient players would ever test it and only slow, unexperienced players would ... Then the game would be balanced around them, and the top-efficieny players would absolutely destroy the economy and therefore part of the main game in no time.


Such testers are more difficult to find of course, which makes it understandable if GGG are proud of having such testers.
Does it mean that they have no other testers ? I don't think so, but I think that it is likely that the game is lacking testing ( or time, or both ).

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鬼殺し написал:

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KatKira написал:

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鬼殺し написал:

The fact that I loved it the moment I started testing it

So you were part of the testing process huh? That explains everything.

It explains nothing. I've been unwell and only got in a handful of hours. I was actually expecting to be still too unwell to play when the game went live so I got in what little play/testing I could beforehand. I COMPLETELY agree that there was nowhere near enough hefty QA/alpha testing before it went live, but what you and so many others don't seem to get, because you seem very small-minded and selfish, is that it's not feasible to have sufficient testing before release to deal with the onslaught of tens of thousands of people doing things differently. Alpha is typically about hunting game-breaking and game-crashing bugs. We do not do QA's job because, well, it's not our job. We do try to give meaningful feedback but if you think we have months to test each league as a finished product and that we do it day in and day out before release you're on the fucking moon.

Which I consider a foregone conclusion for most PoE players these days anyway.

Throwing ONE fucking flare and realizing it's worse than Bestiary's nets is not "tens of thousands of people doing things differently". Neither is repeating the exact same mistakes over and over.

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ffogell написал:

The problem is that their tester/dev are too experienced thus they dont test with the mindset of a new user but an experienced one (and they are better than the whole player base cause its their game)

This is a classic problem and that is why a lot of companies does playtest with people with zero knowledge of the game cause often something that seem obvious for a tester/dev might not be at all for the common player and this happens all the times

I really hope this is sarcasm or a joke lol.

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KatKira написал:

Throwing ONE fucking flare and realizing it's worse than Bestiary's nets is not "tens of thousands of people doing things differently". Neither is repeating the exact same mistakes over and over.

This.

Some QA misses are just so ridiculously obvious, you have to wonder if there was any QA at all.

Or, more to the point, if the QA that was there had even a little influence on development.

Because flare misbehavior more than qualifies as a "game-breaking bug," imo.

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gibbousmoon написал:

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KatKira написал:

Throwing ONE fucking flare and realizing it's worse than Bestiary's nets is not "tens of thousands of people doing things differently". Neither is repeating the exact same mistakes over and over.

This.

Some QA misses are just so ridiculously obvious, you have to wonder if there was any QA at all.

Or, more to the point, if the QA that was there had even a little influence on development.

Because flare misbehavior more than qualifies as a "game-breaking bug," imo.

This.

Where is the point of doing the testing then? It is obviously not testing anything.

Real QA includes a checklist of things a tester should try and give feedback on. Testes not giving meaningful feedback are pointless.

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Synopse написал:

Testes not giving meaningful feedback are pointless.

Mine always give meaningful feedback.

...Just sayin'.

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gibbousmoon написал:

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Synopse написал:

Testes not giving meaningful feedback are pointless.

Mine always give meaningful feedback.

...Just sayin'.

We have an application for testing here. :)

All of what I have read is mostly true and I got ate up on Global chat for mentioning it.

I KNEW the leveling in Delve was super off! I called that on my first character at level 7-12. I kept asking, why am I getting garbage gear? Why am I not leveling in here?

Then I spoke to people in Chat, they day go "Deeper" to get monsters with higher leveles, I do that.

I then notice, "hmm I level 10 times fast in story than I do in Delve". Ok...


So I upgrade my ore count and go deeper, but... IT WILL NEVER catch up to story, it's way out of sync PERIOD. Since it's out of Sync, it can't compete at the start of the game and is thus not very beneficial unless you're mapping.

Making the entire thing worthless at the start of the game, but if you have to keep going back and fourth... eventually you'll level so high mapping that delve becomes an endless, mindless grind for ores, upgrades and "loot" ( you can't even get to).

Not to mention map issues. Have you ever used Leap Slam in that place to get something? I've had issues were I couldn't even leap back the same way and I died to darkness.

I'm not sure what's up with this stuff, but they really need to take a better look at the design.

I know it has it's issues... (flare and dynamite) but people saying it sucks.. that is their opinion. I personally love Delve, of all the leagues, I like this one best!

Also, pseudo-separate-topic: I agree that all characters on an account should share the azurite, but i'm not so sure about also sharing upgrades for each character... I mean if you want to complain that each one of your low level characters has to punp in azurite, then farm a bit with your high level and feed them... they level fast! I just feel that a lot of the fun (for me) is progression, and in this sense, leveling the items in the voltaxic generator is fun/rewarding!