{3.9} Speaker for the Dead | 74 minion Summoner | League Starter, Leveling Guide | 4.7M Shaper DPS 💀

Hello guys, first of all, thanks for the build, awesome.
I'm actually completing t14 atlas maps, not big problems atm. Failed some blighted maps (t11), but I suppose more for my fault than other shit like dps or somthing else.

This is my pg, can someone tell me what to prioritize to upgrade (0 exalted for now -.-")?
Can I suppose to go for uber elder in the actual state?


https://pastebin.com/E7q25TQv


@ everyone:
Alright, let's calculate the Carrion Golem's true DPS.

TL;DR = Each Carrion Golem is worth about two Zombies who have built-in Melee Splash, a gap-closing Leap, and a larger Slam (Bone Cascade) .


Here's what we know:
Info from Rory_GGG
"
Rory написал:
Carrion Golem's Leap Slam has a 4 second cooldown, and doesn't repeat with Multistrike unlike some Spectre leap slams. It deals 180% of their base damage. The Bone Cascade has a 4 second cooldown, can multistrike, has 10% less attack speed and deals 65% of base damage, but can hit enemies multiple times with each cascade. The non-cooldown attack deals 135% of their base damage with the first two swings which are wide cones, while the third to sixth swing deals 162% of base damage with 200% more attack speed, but in a smaller rectangle (For bursting down enemies that survive the first two swings). At level 20 of the gem, they do an average of 372 damage per hit, with an attack time of 0.9 seconds. They have 1067 accuracy rating at gem level 20, the same as other minions.

The no-repeat only applies to the Leap Slam, not their cascade slam, because it was a bit pointless when they jumped on the spot. Stone Golem slams still repeat as usual.

Everything from Multistrike will apply to their leap, but they won't get that second or third repeat damage bonus.

If they did their full 6 hit combo, that'd be two multistrike sequences. Visually, it'd just look like they did their normal sequence, but faster, but the damage would be more loaded towards the rapid final attacks.

Ah, the damage boost Carrion Golems get is from your minions, and the range is 60. Ideally close enough that you don't need to constantly worry about it unless you're using the Meat Shield support on your doods.

Carrion Golems have 11384 life at gem level 20.

[Q: Base average hit for ice golems, 1090, is 3x carrion golem?] That looks correct, because Ice Golems skills have lower damage multipliers by comparison. It's more a artifact of how we tweaked the balance on the minion, and the fact the Carrion Golem gets up to 80% more damage if you have 10 non-golem minions near them.

Carrion Golems have no basic attack, just their comboish non-cooldown attack.

The Leap is only used if the target is more than a certain distance away. It'll have different chances for different abilities based on positioning of all enemies in range, it's not a guaranteed order.

[Q: Will CG interrupt its combo when other skills go off cooldown?] The Carrion Golem's combo attack is much more likely to complete once it gets going, unless the chosen target dies. If the primary target dies it'll likely switch to the cascade if it's available.

A quick test shows that Bone Cascade hits 1-5 times based on position and chance, but larger monsters will be hit by more spikes, similar to Glacial Cascade.

[Q: Skill priority?] The Bone Cascade is usually used in the next few hits every time it's active, unless the melee combo is in the part of the sequence that does high damage and the enemy it was targeting is still alive. Chance still plays a part, they're not fully reliable in their use.
(3D model)

372 base damage (= flat damage is very effective for them)
0.9 sec attack delay / 1.11 attack speed
80% more damage with 10 nearby minions (60 unit radius)

Leap Slam Attack = 4sec cooldown, cannot Multistrike
670 (180%) damage, 0.9 sec attack delay
1206 damage with 10 nearby minions

Bone Cascade Attack = 4sec cooldown, can Multistrike
242 (65%) damage, 1 sec attack delay (10% less attack speed), hits 1-5 times (up to 1210 damage) with multiple small AOEs
436 damage with 10 nearby minions
= 2178 damage @ 5 hits

Combo Attack = No cooldown, Multistrike plays through the first three combo attacks, then the final three, causing no visual difference but makes the combo play out faster and with more damage on the second and third hits (= Multistrike is really good).

1. 502 (135%) damage, 0.9 attack delay, wide cone AOE
2. 502 (135%) damage, 0.9 attack delay, wide cone AOE
3. 603 (162%) damage, 0.3 attack delay (200% more attack speed), smaller rectangle AOE
= 1607 damage in 2.1 seconds

4. 603 (162%) damage, 0.3 attack delay (200% more attack speed), smaller rectangle AOE
5. 603 (162%) damage, 0.3 attack delay (200% more attack speed), smaller rectangle AOE
6. 603 (162%) damage, 0.3 attack delay (200% more attack speed), smaller rectangle AOE
= 1809 damage in 0.9 seconds

All six combo strikes = 3416 damage in 3 seconds
= 1139 DPS
= 2049 DPS with 10 nearby minions

For comparison, a L20 Zombie deals 1059 base damage, 1.18 attack delay (0.85 attack speed), or 900 DPS.

A L20 Skeleton deals 1338 base damage, 0.8 attack delay (1.25 attack speed), or 1673 DPS.

Individually, the Carrion Golem is 128% stronger than a Zombie (or put another way, counts as 2.28 Zombies) and 23% stronger than a Skeleton, not counting its inherent AOE for clear speed. As a skill, however, both Zombies and Skeletons easily have 10-11 minions, meaning their boss DPS can inflate by a factor of 10+, or 9k and 17k respectively.

One Carrion Golem is therefore only 23% of Zombie single-target DPS, meaning they're beat out by most support gems when sharing a link. You need at least 2 Golems for them to be competitive (46%).

To replace Zombies, you need at least 4 Carrion Golems (92%).


EDIT: According to PoB, the base damage of a L20 Carrion Golem is 250-375, or 313 average. Did the value change since Rory's post, did Rory make an error, or is PoB wrong? In any case, that would lower the Carrion Golem's damage calculations by 0.84, meaning their Combo Attack would deal 1721 DPS. It would then only be 91% stronger than a Zombie, and 19.1% of Zombie single-target DPS. To be a competitive link with Zombies, you'd need 3 Carrion Golems (57%). To replace Zombies, you'd need 5 Carrion Golems (96%).




WHAT ABOUT THE DAMAGE BUFF?

The flat physical damage buff from the Carrion Golem provides 34 average damage @L20, or 41 @L23. If we were to also spend 4 passive points for Golem Commander, the 70% increased buff effect would boost the L23 amount to 70 damage. With this much investment, it becomes worth 6.6% more damage for L20 Zombies who have 1059 base damage. Or 3.2% @L20 with no investment.

But if we also increase our Zombie level to 23, their base damage becomes 1425. This drops the value of the buff down to 4.9% more damage. If we push our Zombies to level 30, the value of the buff drops further to 2.5%. Without the Golem Commander cluster, it drops to 1.5%.

You'll get the best return from minions with low base damage. L20 Phantasms have 763 base damage. They also have a hidden 50% more Added Damage multiplier. For them, 70 flat phys is worth 13.7% more damage. Or 6.7% more for 34 flat damage.

L23 Raging Spirits have 324 base damage. 70 flat * 0.85 less Added Damage = 18% more damage.


EDIT: I made a Reddit post to share these calculations.
Последняя редакция: Hercanic. Время: 20 сент. 2019 г., 18:31:47


Among these two claw, which one is the best for damage output ?

+ 1 socketed gem and maim lvl 20
or
maim lvl 18 and melee splash lvl 16

Thx
"
Jacob1618 написал:


Among these two claw, which one is the best for damage output ?

+ 1 socketed gem and maim lvl 20
or
maim lvl 18 and melee splash lvl 16

Thx

I'd say definitely +1 gem and maim 20, especially if you then use empower.
Hi Guys,

Will this mess up EE? Based of Hercanics build. It seems good just not sure about added DMG.
"
Insane_Goat написал:
Hi Guys,

Will this mess up EE? Based of Hercanics build. It seems good just not sure about added DMG.


No, only your own damage applies EE.

I would try to go for jewels that have either +life or +ES in addition to damage stats though. Those flat added damage to minions are not that amazing really.
Последняя редакция: Jurvi. Время: 20 сент. 2019 г., 15:36:01
Скрытый текст
"
Hercanic написал:
@ everyone:
Alright, let's calculate the Carrion Golem's true DPS. Here's what we know:

Info from Rory_GGG
"
Rory написал:
Carrion Golem's Leap Slam has a 4 second cooldown, and doesn't repeat with Multistrike unlike some Spectre leap slams. It deals 180% of their base damage. The Bone Cascade has a 4 second cooldown, can multistrike, has 10% less attack speed and deals 65% of base damage, but can hit enemies multiple times with each cascade. The non-cooldown attack deals 135% of their base damage with the first two swings which are wide cones, while the third to sixth swing deals 162% of base damage with 200% more attack speed, but in a smaller rectangle (For bursting down enemies that survive the first two swings). At level 20 of the gem, they do an average of 372 damage per hit, with an attack time of 0.9 seconds. They have 1067 accuracy rating at gem level 20, the same as other minions.

The no-repeat only applies to the Leap Slam, not their cascade slam, because it was a bit pointless when they jumped on the spot. Stone Golem slams still repeat as usual.

Everything from Multistrike will apply to their leap, but they won't get that second or third repeat damage bonus.

If they did their full 6 hit combo, that'd be two multistrike sequences. Visually, it'd just look like they did their normal sequence, but faster, but the damage would be more loaded towards the rapid final attacks.

Ah, the damage boost Carrion Golems get is from your minions, and the range is 60. Ideally close enough that you don't need to constantly worry about it unless you're using the Meat Shield support on your doods.

Carrion Golems have 11384 life at gem level 20.

[Q: Base average hit for ice golems, 1090, is 3x carrion golem?] That looks correct, because Ice Golems skills have lower damage multipliers by comparison. It's more a artifact of how we tweaked the balance on the minion, and the fact the Carrion Golem gets up to 80% more damage if you have 10 non-golem minions near them.

Carrion Golems have no basic attack, just their comboish non-cooldown attack.

The Leap is only used if the target is more than a certain distance away. It'll have different chances for different abilities based on positioning of all enemies in range, it's not a guaranteed order.

[Q: Will CG interrupt its combo when other skills go off cooldown?] The Carrion Golem's combo attack is much more likely to complete once it gets going, unless the chosen target dies. If the primary target dies it'll likely switch to the cascade if it's available.

A quick test shows that Bone Cascade hits 1-5 times based on position and chance, but larger monsters will be hit by more spikes, similar to Glacial Cascade.

[Q: Skill priority?] The Bone Cascade is usually used in the next few hits every time it's active, unless the melee combo is in the part of the sequence that does high damage and the enemy it was targeting is still alive. Chance still plays a part, they're not fully reliable in their use.

(3D model)

372 base damage (= flat damage is very effective for them)
0.9 sec attack delay / 1.11 attack speed
80% more damage with 10 nearby minions (60 unit radius)

Leap Slam Attack = 4sec cooldown, cannot Multistrike
670 (180%) damage, 0.9 sec attack delay
1206 damage with 10 nearby minions

Bone Cascade Attack = 4sec cooldown, can Multistrike
242 (65%) damage, 1 sec attack delay (10% less attack speed), hits 1-5 times (up to 1210 damage) with multiple small AOEs
436 damage with 10 nearby minions
= 2178 damage @ 5 hits

Combo Attack = No cooldown, Multistrike plays through the first three combo attacks, then the final three, causing no visual difference but makes the combo play out faster and with more damage on the second and third hits (= Multistrike is really good).

1. 502 (135%) damage, 0.9 attack delay, wide cone AOE
2. 502 (135%) damage, 0.9 attack delay, wide cone AOE
3. 603 (162%) damage, 0.3 attack delay (200% more attack speed), smaller rectangle AOE
= 1607 damage in 2.1 seconds

4. 603 (162%) damage, 0.3 attack delay (200% more attack speed), smaller rectangle AOE
5. 603 (162%) damage, 0.3 attack delay (200% more attack speed), smaller rectangle AOE
6. 603 (162%) damage, 0.3 attack delay (200% more attack speed), smaller rectangle AOE
= 1809 damage in 0.9 seconds

All six combo strikes = 3416 damage in 3 seconds
= 1139 DPS
= 2049 DPS with 10 nearby minions

For comparison, a L20 Zombie deals 1059 base damage, 1.18 attack delay (0.85 attack speed), or 900 DPS.

A L20 Skeleton deals 1338 base damage, 0.8 attack delay (1.25 attack speed), or 1673 DPS.

Individually, the Carrion Golem is 128% stronger than a Zombie (or put another way, counts as 2.28 Zombies) and 23% stronger than a Skeleton, not counting its inherent AOE for clear speed. As a skill, however, both Zombies and Skeletons easily have 10-11 minions, meaning their boss DPS can inflate by a factor of 10+, or 9k and 17k respectively.

One Carrion Golem is therefore only 23% of Zombie single-target DPS, meaning they're beat out by most support gems when sharing a link. You need at least 2 Golems for them to be competitive (46%).

To replace Zombies, you need at least 4 Carrion Golems (92%).




WHAT ABOUT THE DAMAGE BUFF?

The flat physical damage buff from the Carrion Golem provides 34 average damage @L20, or 41 @L23. If we were to also spend 4 passive points for Golem Commander, the 70% increased buff effect would boost the L23 amount to 70 damage. With this much investment, it becomes worth 6.6% more damage for L20 Zombies who have 1059 base damage. Or 3.2% @L20 with no investment.

But if we also increase our Zombie level to 23, their base damage becomes 1425. This drops the value of the buff down to 4.9% more damage. If we push our Zombies to level 30, the value of the buff drops further to 2.5%. Without the Golem Commander cluster, it drops to 1.5%.

You'll get the best return from minions with low base damage. L20 Phantasms have 763 base damage. They also have a hidden 50% more Added Damage multiplier. For them, 70 flat phys is worth 13.7% more damage. Or 6.7% more for 34 flat damage.

L23 Raging Spirits have 324 base damage. 70 flat * 0.85 less Added Damage = 18% more damage.


EDIT: I made a Reddit post to share these calculations.


"
"
Hercanic wrote:
@ everyone:
Alright, let's calculate the Carrion Golem's true DPS. Here's what we know:


Interesting Read, This is my current Zombies/Golem setup



I've been going back and forth with weather or not to include the golem in there. Without the golem I use Minion Damage to make my Zombies substantially stronger, but the golem will strengthen my skellys for more dps on boss fight.

I'm currently at t15 maps, and tbh everything dies so quickly (bosses included) that I can't tell any difference between the two gems setup.

My understanding or lack of understanding from your write-up is that I should use Minion Damage instead of Carrion Golem.


Последняя редакция: IchiMorghulis. Время: 20 сент. 2019 г., 17:04:09
i've dropped ALL golems 3 days ago and didn't lose anything except maybe life regen from Stone Golem (i rolled Golem Master first, then rerolled those passives).

In my personal humble experience i don't see any benefits to use Holy Relic.
Maybe i move too slow or doing it wrong.

I've bought Arakaali's recently and it's just WOW.
I've dropped Elemental Army and Chain for Phantasms and Controlled Destruction and it's really working great with Zombies, Spiders and Skellies.

Now i only need to get nice Helmet, boots and 6L Chest to survive :)
Последняя редакция: Singrave. Время: 20 сент. 2019 г., 17:20:04
Wondering if the shield can be changed to something else
"
IchiMorghulis написал:
I've been going back and forth with weather or not to include the golem in there. Without the golem I use Minion Damage to make my Zombies substantially stronger, but the golem will strengthen my skellys for more dps on boss fight.

My understanding or lack of understanding from your write-up is that I should use Minion Damage instead of Carrion Golem.

L23 Carrion Golem, without the Golem Commander cluster, will contribute 2.5% more damage for Skeletons, or roughly the equivalent of 10-15% increased Minion Damage.

Our Zombies can achieve about half the DPS of our Skeletons. Boosting this by ~50% is more valuable than boosting Skeletons by 2.5%. Even if we factor Vaal Skeletons, it should still be in favor of Zombies.

If Skeletons deal 10M and Vaal Skeletons deal 20M, for a total of 30M, then 2.5% more damage = 750k. The Carrion Golem itself would do about 532k. For a total of 1.3M.

If Zombies deal 2.5M, then Minion Damage Support = 1.4M.

If we instead use a L4 Empower with +1 and +2 Support craft, pushing Zombies to L30, then = 2.4M.

In short, fully supporting Zombies is better for clear and about the same versus bosses, or far better if you can achieve max level stacking.
Последняя редакция: Hercanic. Время: 20 сент. 2019 г., 17:47:22

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