TRADE is such a detriment to POE 2 being fun

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Rinslaughter#5595 написал:

I made a post discussing a solution some of the issues with trading on the discussion forums


Buy it now trading
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3630460

Yeah, I'm not 100% sure what the issue is here, but it does highlight the myriad of problems that creep into a game when you start making trade a key aspect: It opens the doors to scammers, spam, cheese, cookie cutter builds, linear power progression, diminished core gameplay loop, design drain, increased power range in the player base leading to harder design difficulty, and on and on and on in so many ways that lead to a muddy game with muddy game design and progression.

The fun of killing orcs with swords and stealing their loot gets supplanted with looking at spreadsheets of resist rates and item costs.

What is best in life?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oo9buo9Mtos

NOT BORING ASS TRADE!

I would have hoped to see this thread before anyone else said to play ssf, or to just ignore trade.

There are 2 massive problems with playing ssf to get out of trading, the 2nd being shared with playing regular league without trading.

The first is that we have friends. We want to play the game with our friends.
Fulfilling the desire to play within a league where trading isn't a thing, should not necessitate also forfeiting the ability to play multiplayer.
I may very well enjoy playing in a league where there is no trading, and I want to play in that league with other people.

The second problem presents a drastic downside to both ssf and playing normal league without trading.
Once trading is added to a game, it has to be accounted for. Which is to say, the game has to be balanced around it.
The game, the maps, the bosses, the stats and combat, all of it, is balanced with trading in mind. It is balanced based on the gear that trading heavy players will have. It has to be, or they'll be so overpowered there's no longer a point in playing.

A player who is neglecting the trading system won't simply be less powerful than the trader, they will be underpowered for the balance of the game.
They won't just be weaker than the trading players, they'll be weaker than the intended level of power you're supposed to have, by design, when engaging with given content.
And since ssf lacks changes to account for this, on top of the inability to team up, it's basically just "I want to be underpowered" mode.

Without a trading system, using just looting and crafting, it would be expected for a player to be power level 100 when reaching a given boss.
That boss is designed and balanced around being fought at power level 100.
To be at 50, you could be called underpowered, and to be at 150, you could be called overpowered.
Then they add trading to the game.
Now, the players who trade are reaching this boss at power level 300.
In order to avoid the problems that come from too many people being so overpowered, the boss has to be rebalanced. It is, as before, balanced around the power level players are expected to be when reaching it. Which is now 300.
The players who are not trading are still only power level 100 when reaching this boss. Instead of being the power level the boss is designed for, they are 200 levels below. They are severely underpowered.
It is not about other peoples advantage. It's about your disadvantage.
It doesn't matter that another player, a trader, is 200 levels above you. That doesn't affect you, directly. But the boss being 200 levels above you does affect you, and it's caused by the trading. If you can't win everything while severely underpowered, participating in trade is not optional.
By virtue of balancing needs, the existence of a trade system is actively detrimental to any player who doesn't use it.

All of this being facts people to acknowledge before determining their opinion on the trade system and whether or not to have it.
If you accept these facts as facts, then draw the conclusion that the trade system is still worth having and want it in the game, I respect that opinion. I'm not asking for it to be removed either.
Rather, my opinion, conclusion drawn, after accepting that these facts are facts is that multiplayer self found should exist, not just solo self found, and that self found modes should have changes to the loot system to account for the lack of trading. While maintaining trade league.

Sounds to me like you value "not being gimped" over challenge so play trade league.

So i have to ask, how much of POE 1 did you play? I've got two characters in POE 2 and I've had who knows how many in POE 1 some SSF and some in trade, you absolutely do not need to trade. I've got 2 days 0 hours, 11 minutes at the time of writing on this character and I've not traded a single time and no one else i know who plays has traded so far either. Honestly from reading all your replies to everyone it's a problem you are forcing on yourself. It's like saying you hate pizza but because it's there you have to eat it. Idk maybe play a different game then i guess?

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Bakubylozajete#1182 написал:

When the trade is too fast and easy it becomes the main way to upgrade items. No searching, no crafting, no checking vendors. You have a list, you find an upgrades buy them, and repeat the process in a while. This is a detraction from the big part of the game that is about gearing up.

When I saw this done in diablo 3 it was so disheartening.

I like that from the begining I have to care about the gear and simple upgrade to my flash can be a challange that in the end feels rewarding. Instead of just easy one click solution to upgrade everything.

1000%

I was REALLY good at the Diablo 3 auction house. I upgraded to be super strong and had tons of money. And I HATED it.

We want to play an action RPG to get away from the mundane currency systems of the world.

We want to kill orcs and get phat lewts.

Most of us don't want to spreadsheet our way to pure power. Why even play the game?

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KeafLedger#1284 написал:

So i have to ask, how much of POE 1 did you play? I've got two characters in POE 2 and I've had who knows how many in POE 1 some SSF and some in trade, you absolutely do not need to trade. I've got 2 days 0 hours, 11 minutes at the time of writing on this character and I've not traded a single time and no one else i know who plays has traded so far either. Honestly from reading all your replies to everyone it's a problem you are forcing on yourself. It's like saying you hate pizza but because it's there you have to eat it. Idk maybe play a different game then i guess?

I played a good bit of POE 1 back in the day. I'm basing this post mostly off what I see as the difficulty mechanics in POE 2 being much more gating, so trade will be a much bigger issue moving forward as more power can be derived by rare items and people begin to hit power blocks.

It's a forward thinking post considering the unique elements of POE 2

This might all entirely be by design to help monetize the game, which is admittedly kind of genius in terms of $$$ if detrimental to the fun of most players.

Nothing is gated. I havent traded once and I am doing fine. If you cant succeed without trading that is ... cringe ... a skill issue. I hate that meme but it definitely applies here. I am done with this nonsense conversation.

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Kraythax#2592 написал:

Nothing is gated. I havent traded once and I am doing fine. If you cant succeed without trading that is ... cringe ... a skill issue. I hate that meme but it definitely applies here. I am done with this nonsense conversation.

That's fine. But for the record, I'm not arguing that trade is terrible NOW. The game is very well balanced now because the effects of trade haven't crept in.

We all have mid tier rares and that makes the game easy to balance. But that will change with time. That 1/1000 rare item, perfectly crafted with hundreds of currency items WILL start to emerge, and there WILL be characters that are 3x as tanky and 3x the damage output as you because they spent all day in trade menus and optimized their gear based on all their currency drops and optimized a cookie cutter build for max resists and perfectly placed damage outputs all coalescing around one pre determined setup gained not through fun random drops, but dumping a set amount of currency into the Trade website.

That IS going to happen, and you WILL be far behind these players feeling gimped that you weren't trading and relying on items from trade sites over trying to find your own neat items and creating your build around the fun drops.

I guess the silver lining here, is at any point a player decides to start engaging in trade, they will have a huge stock of currency items hoarded up to do so.

But it doesn't change the fact that trade takes so much of the fun randomness and discovery away, it turns the game into a linear treadmill of predictable checkboxes for arbitrary resists and evade chances, and regen rates towards a predetermined outcome.

You know what I'd be happy with? Is if they made maybe 1/3 of unique items NO DROP. Or if certain very rare mods made rare items NO DROP, and these were the mods and items that really spiced up our builds and got us theory crafting around a few trade items that fulfill the key gear checks.

I could live with trading for the majority of my gear but know that a couple key pieces defined by build and were randomly found by myself.

That would be a FANTASTIC compromise.

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crazyfingers619#3901 написал:

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RKxZlcLUUF#5704 написал:

play SSF. its very rewarding

I don't like the idea of playing in a way that is inherently negative. You don't get a reward for not accepting trades from others, you're simply nerfing your ability to progress.

And this is the problem, the game is tuned and oriented around trade, and trade for the majority of players is unfun. And a great many players who think they enjoy light trade have no idea how far reaching the mechanics have on a multiplayer game like Path of Exile.

It inherently breaks balance, it inherently makes the game harder to sustain fairness and fun play because mistakes in balance become more permanent and tuning loot systems have far less room for experimentation and finding optimal rates.

The whole of the game becomes worse so a few people who get off on ripping others off for power, or who enjoy haggling and trading up get to play some sub game of economy.

I don't log into an action RPG to stare at a trade tab and wait for someone else to find an item I might use. It ABSOLUTELY kills the fun of the game. Why even play? Why not just sit there and stare at trade all day long and haggle? It's by far the best way to progress in power.

It absolutely diminishes the core loop, and takes the joy out of finding items and playing an action game.

The math inherently favors trade. Most good items you will find will not fit your build. So unless you trade, you will be at a HUGE disadvantage when it comes to power.

It's not that I don't know how to trade, it's not that I don't know how to quantify an items value. It's that I don't want to have to haggle, or stare at spreadsheets, or leave the fighting area just to play the darned game.

I just want to find loot. And I want to find the loot that I found, that has cool randomized mods, and I want to theory craft builds for those mods, and not feel as though I'm gimped because other people are just trading for the perfect items that breaks all the magic.

You don't want to trade but you dont want to play the non trade league. AKA you are just here to complain. Next

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RKxZlcLUUF#5704 написал:

You don't want to trade but you dont want to play the non trade league. AKA you are just here to complain. Next

You're on a forum but you don't want to actually read anything anyone has said and just inject a strawman to dismiss.

Next.