Серверы PoE 2 будут перезагружены через:
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Работа будет восстановлена примерно через .

Why dedicate my time if I can lose all my XP with a death penalty?

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Mouser#2899 написал:
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dwqrf#0717 написал:


HARDCORE is the easiest game mode ever, and surely not even challenging.

Riiiiiight.


Hardcore should be a rogue-lite. You roll your character, get as far as you can, then start the loop again.

Getting to endgame in hardcore should not be the norm until you have mastered the game.


???????? Hardcore players don't have the right to progress, grind, farm, trade, and such ? What ?
You think Hardcore players just play -to die- ??



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Bacon_Overlord#1834 написал:
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WoodkingHard#4366 написал:
I died 3 times today so I in a away I have more left to level 92 then yesterday.

I cant stay 100 focused every map all the time every day need som slack maps specially with the awful pathing in EA. Or only run white blue maps wich isnt gun. Just to get exp.

I think 91 will be my last level I havnt found 300 or more divines like to many others yet :D lucky ppl


If you died 3x today at 90+ then you have wasted the entire day, basically.

Welcome to the "fuck it, I quit" mechanic.


So by "wasting the entire day" you mean to say the player didn't : have fun ; progress in skill ; progress in knowledge ; dropped gear ; dropped currency ; progress in his atlas ; limit-tested his build.

None of it ???
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dwqrf#0717 написал:
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Mouser#2899 написал:
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dwqrf#0717 написал:


HARDCORE is the easiest game mode ever, and surely not even challenging.

Riiiiiight.


Hardcore should be a rogue-lite. You roll your character, get as far as you can, then start the loop again.

Getting to endgame in hardcore should not be the norm until you have mastered the game.


???????? Hardcore players don't have the right to progress, grind, farm, trade, and such ? What ?
You think Hardcore players just play -to die- ??



"
Bacon_Overlord#1834 написал:
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WoodkingHard#4366 написал:
I died 3 times today so I in a away I have more left to level 92 then yesterday.

I cant stay 100 focused every map all the time every day need som slack maps specially with the awful pathing in EA. Or only run white blue maps wich isnt gun. Just to get exp.

I think 91 will be my last level I havnt found 300 or more divines like to many others yet :D lucky ppl


If you died 3x today at 90+ then you have wasted the entire day, basically.

Welcome to the "fuck it, I quit" mechanic.


So by "wasting the entire day" you mean to say the player didn't : have fun ; progress in skill ; progress in knowledge ; dropped gear ; dropped currency ; progress in his atlas ; limit-tested his build.

None of it ???


It depends on what their goals were.

But, realistically none of that has any real purpose if he's 90+ already.

Did you miss that part?

Plus progressing the atlas does... what? Give you a slight chance to uncover a citadel you can make one mistake and lose again? LoL.

Stop, really.
Visit my Steam profile here: https://steamcommunity.com/id/TheBaconOverlord/
*i know im gonna take allota heat from saying this?
buuuuut if they did remove xp pen on death altogether? there wouldn't be much to flex when you finally get to lvl 100 would there
Последняя редакция: im_a_manatee#3304. Время: 7 янв. 2025 г., 14:25:44
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Bacon_Overlord#1834 написал:


It depends on what their goals were.

But, realistically none of that has any real purpose if he's 90+ already.



I thought the goal of a game was to have fun, so I guess if his goals wasn't to have fun and now he complains he didn't have fun, then it makes a lot of sense why he didn't have fun.

Thanks for the insight I was confused as how he wasted time not having fun.

"


Most of us are adults that have limited time to put into a game. The XP penalty doesn't encourage players to figure out what they are doing wrong and to get better. It encourages them to go play another game. You can punish people without making them feel like time has been wasted. That is all anyone wants and that is all that is needed to keep the game healthy (in a player retention way). Its a game, how it makes people feel and what the mechanics incentivize is far more important for success than anything else.

Maybe you could keep XP loss but make loot tables or XP gains 10-20 times better or reduce loss to like 2% to make up for it. But those solutions sound like they would make the game far easier then just replacing XP loss with XP debt or another alternate punishing mechanic would.

Seen folks say that it conflicts with GGGs vision and okay, sure. You totally get to stick to your artistic vision and no one can tell you it is wrong. But you also don't get to complain that people "don't get it" or "don't like it". And enough don't like it you definitely do not get to complain when it doesn't make enough money to stay around.

Something that's also getting lost seems to be that the leaks we have gotten (assuming they are real) imply Tencent (GGG's owners) want the opposite of what the XP loss defenders want. Tencent seems to want POE 1 to be the hardcore game and POE2 to be the more casual cash grab. If POE 2 doesn't do that and fails, what do you think will happen? Either they:
Shut down POE 2 and POE 1 is made even easier to try to bring in the cash
2)POE 1 will be shut down to force everyone on to POE 2 and it will be made an easier game to try to keep them there or
3) they shut down the studio because its not making enough. Line must go up and all. If you want a more hardcore game it seems like you are better off hoping they make POE 1 the harder game or advocating for a replacement penalty that still makes death meaningful but that doesn't make people leave.

The current situation is just not something a company is going to like. Only 7 people at 100 after a month that included holidays and college kids having time off, Steams player base losing aprox 2/3rds of its members and dropping (https://steamdb.info/app/2694490/charts/#1m), the reviews saying they stopped playing at endgame. The current situation is not sustainable for a game in todays market.


If a group of investors starts to decide they are going to take over development decisions for ggg then the game has no hope. Nothing good comes from appeasing random bean counters besides getting money. Blizzard has proven this, Ubisoft has proven this. The entire state of triple a gaming has proven this. Pandering to your investors is the WORST reason to make game development decisions.

Tencent has done well so far because they DONT do this. Why would they suddenly start now? They already have their own client for China with the freedom to make swathing changes to the game for path of exile 1 (full blown auction house controlled by bots that have ruined every leagues economy at the speed of light). Why would they suddenly change the format that’s been nothing but successful for them?

People need to stop acting like they know what kind of impact their opinions have on the game as a whole. We provide feedback, it’s not up to us to decide we know what’s best for the game as a,”product”. As the consumer we shouldn’t even be looking at it from a business point of view. That shit has nothing to do with us. All this vocal minority, you will lose x amount of players, yada yada, has no basis when it comes to giving feedback. You’re just trying to make it sound like your opinion has more credence than someone else’s. Knock that dumb shit off.
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im_a_manatee#3304 написал:
*i know im gonna take allota heat from saying this?
buuuuut if they did remove xp pen on death altogether? there wouldn't be much to flex when you finally get to lvl 100 would there


There is no flex to it already since people just buy 100 (defenders have a vested interest to sell boosts, see poe1). It only really means that you have the ability to invest a lot of time to grind easy content. You can flex with it if you deem it as such but many, including those that made 100, don't see it as such.

No idea why you would get heat for that comment, perhaps from someone who takes this as a personal attack i.e. ego in which case that would be very unhealthy.
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dwqrf#0717 написал:


So by "wasting the entire day" you mean to say the player didn't : have fun ; progress in skill ; progress in knowledge ; dropped gear ; dropped currency ; progress in his atlas ; limit-tested his build.

None of it ???



Didn't have fun: For some a big part of the fun is the progression, so yeah feeling like you were sent backwards kills a lot of the fun.
Didn't progress in Skill: Maybe? Skill progression is not linear and you might have just discovered your gear is suddenly bad.

Didn't progress in Knowledge: Again, maybe, maybe not. I know to watch out for on death mechanics, sometimes I make a mistake and walk or dodge into it. Mistakes happen and they aren't always learning experiences, especially when the game is repetitive like this.

Didn't progress in Dropped Gear: Its POE, its super easy to go a couple of hours without seeing anything thats better than what you currently have equipped. Doesn't even take that much bad RNG.

Dropped currency: See above. And even if the currencies you do want drop, they are only good for crafting and trading. Two other systems people don't exactly like but GGG seems to.

Progress in his Atlas: Maybe but the atlas does not fulfill the same sense of progress because its infinite. If the campaign had XP loss, the Campaign map would cause of acts and eventual finish.


Didn't limit-test their build: Again, maybe. Was that a careless mistake, or the game trying to tell me something? Is the death an issue of the build i am using? Is my issue that I my gear isn't good enough anymore? Is my gear and build fine, but I need to, as the kids say, git gud? Is everything fine and just made a careless mistake? XP loss disincentivizes experimentation, figuring out what you did wrong and figuring out where you need to improve.

So yeah, it actually is really easy to feel like you wasted your time, especially if you have a limited amount of time to play in a night. And maybe it is silly to feel like you wasted time when you were having fun moments ago, but welcome to human psychology. You can't tell people not to feel that way, just doesn't work.

To be very clear, I don't want the game to be ez, want a death penalty that makes my limited available time feel worth it and encourages me to experiment and challenge myself. Xp loss encourages me to play incredibly cautiously and be super over leveled which is a much worse experience. Switch it to XP debt and, personally atleast, a lot of this goes away.
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im_a_manatee#3304 написал:
*i know im gonna take allota heat from saying this?
buuuuut if they did remove xp pen on death altogether? there wouldn't be much to flex when you finally get to lvl 100 would there



It's a video game. Its already not a flex. Not even mentioning the fact that even "Playing right" hitting 100 takes forever as is. It just kind of looks like you had a lot of free time on your hands.
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FusionXTC#3438 написал:
The main reason there's penalties is so players actually develop skills and feel rewarded for hitting level 95+, especially level 100.
Without penalty, noobies like you would be able to just grind t1 whites for 500 hours to achieve that goal.


Do you think people are dying on T1 white maps and why would anyone grind T1 maps for 500 hours? Anyone can currently farm T1 white maps and not to die, but there is reason people arent doing it.

I dont feel rewarded for hitting levels after 90lvl, instead Im relieved for a moment that I actually got the level but then after few maps and after gathering like 30% xp I start stressing to die again.
Its arpg super-grindy game and I like to listen to music and chill and feel the progression every time I play the game. If I do this, I may not hear corpse explosions around me and then suddenly outside of screen I get instantly killed by corpse explosions. After this happens I feel greatly unsatisfied and when this happens enough times, it just encourages more to quit than continue. On top of that you lose the waystone, loot and map modifier. Its just too much.

League competition to 100lvl shouldn't ever be that super important that it ruins the gameplay experience for majority of people.
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adrenrocker#5143 написал:
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im_a_manatee#3304 написал:
*i know im gonna take allota heat from saying this?
buuuuut if they did remove xp pen on death altogether? there wouldn't be much to flex when you finally get to lvl 100 would there



It's a video game. Its already not a flex. Not even mentioning the fact that even "Playing right" hitting 100 takes forever as is. It just kind of looks like you had a lot of free time on your hands.


What other games do you enjoy my man?

I play Rimworld for fun. That game has some amazing mods and is quite challenging, but in a fun and engaging way. It's pretty fair unless you crank the difficulty up too high.

I also enjoy sitting back with ARK Survival Evolved. The base game is pretty good. But I've added some mods that make it a Horde survival game, where you build a base and need to defend against dozens of super strong dino's. It's hella fun. Gives you good reason to go out and find big strong dino's to tame, and to reinforce your base with gathered materials.

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Volccari#1337 написал:
Do you think people are dying on T1 white maps and why would anyone grind T1 maps for 500 hours? Anyone can currently farm T1 white maps and not to die, but there is reason people arent doing it.

I dont feel rewarded for hitting levels after 90lvl, instead Im relieved for a moment that I actually got the level but then after few maps and after gathering like 30% xp I start stressing to die again.
Its arpg super-grindy game and I like to listen to music and chill and feel the progression every time I play the game. If I do this, I may not hear corpse explosions around me and then suddenly outside of screen I get instantly killed by corpse explosions. After this happens I feel greatly unsatisfied and when this happens enough times, it just encourages more to quit than continue. On top of that you lose the waystone, loot and map modifier. Its just too much.

League competition to 100lvl shouldn't ever be that super important that it ruins the gameplay experience for majority of people.


This is how it usually ends up for me. It's pretty easy to get up to about 85 without really worrying about the XP loss tooo much, but every level after that, I'm constantly stressing about potentially losing my XP. I avoid doing more difficult maps because of it, and grinding a low level map is just obnoxiously slow. So I usually end up quitting. I play for enjoyment, not to stress constantly about losing hours of progress.

I love having a show on a second monitor while I blast enemies and loot stuff.

I really like the experience of getting to ~85 or so, and then the mechanics I hate really start rearing their heads.

The main one is just how much of the game is balanced around "The Economy". and the second one is how much the game pads your game time.

In the form of mandatory crafting/trading to progress, bad loot drops. Content is frequently balanced around the top builds. Self-made builds tend to be unviable without tons of work. The amount of time spent looking at a trade website, or simply leveling. Even Co-op content suffers because of it, and I like playing with my friends.

Последняя редакция: Akedomo#3573. Время: 7 янв. 2025 г., 15:05:43

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