Why dedicate my time if I can lose all my XP with a death penalty?

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Akedomo#3573 написал:

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drkekyll#1294 написал:

Hey, So. Thanks for the reply. Unfortunately, I never said your feelings were invalid, so please don't put words in my mouth.

Odd. Well, I feel you invalidated me, and I can clearly point out several examples in the message that you sent that back this up.

I know you don't feel you invalidated. But you completely dismissed my feelings and then tried to "logic" them away.

I'll say it again.

I FEEL my time is wasted with this mechanic. A few deaths can reset an entire evenings grinding. Regardless if I have fun or not during the leveling. Something like this can FEEL overly frustrating, and lead to me not wanting to play. It FEELS incredibly unfair sometimes. Especially when a death can happen for dozens of reasons outside of your control. And each one pads the gametime.

I FEEL the game would do better with actual challenges and content in it. Over this mechanic.

I understand it probably wasn't your intent to invalidate me. That's not what most people go into a conversation doing.

Unfortunately, how most people are taught to communicate. They often invalidate unintentionally. It's simply because they've not had good examples of good communication, or have learnt what invalidating vs validating is. Which is why you see so many people arguing over this. They don't know how to communicate properly.

Not faulting you for it. But it does need to be pointed out, because it's essential to communication. This is especially important, because Video Games. Are designed to be an enjoyable time for people. They play heavily off feelings. Not logic. So when tons of people "Feel" a game mechanic is bad. It's often not good for the game. Even if it 'logically' fits.

If you want to practice it a bit. I'm willing to help.

Next time you play, aim for lvl 90 and pretend it’s max level. Anything you get beyond that think of as extra. Ignore leveling at this point and try more challenging content. Slogging through low level content to level sounds unbearably dull, and I can’t imagine a scenario where anyone thought this was a good idea(grinding low level content, that is). It seems futile because it is, but if you try to aim for different goals, maybe you will enjoy yourself. Just remind yourself that in this game lvl 100 doesn’t matter.

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ogmersault#4806 написал:

Next time you play, aim for lvl 90 and pretend it’s max level. Anything you get beyond that think of as extra. Ignore comet this point and try more challenging content. Slogging through low level content to level sounds unbearably dull, and I can’t imagine a scenario where anyone thought this was a good idea. It seems futile because it is, but if you try to aim for different goals, maybe you will enjoy yourself. Just remind yourself that in this game lvl 100 doesn’t matter.

Hey thanks. However, this entire statement of yours is invalidating, and it fails to address the issues I raised.

Healthy communication involves acknowledgement of someone's feelings. Not just offering advice that completely contradicts their feelings and fails to address what was brought up.

I'm here to help teach if you're willing.

Forget losing XP, this is already game of the year!

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ogmersault#4806 написал:

Slogging through low level content to level sounds unbearably dull, and I can’t imagine a scenario where anyone thought this was a good idea(grinding low level content, that is).

And yet, this is what the XP penalty is designed to push people toward.

The punishment is there to teach people to avoid challenging content, and to mindlessly grind on the easiest content that still gives XP.

GGG is making a punishing game so they don't have to bother making a challenging one.

You want a sense of achievement? Ask for content that takes skill to overcome.

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FusionXTC#3438 написал:

The main reason there's penalties is so players actually develop skills and feel rewarded for hitting level 95+, especially level 100.
Without penalty, noobies like you would be able to just grind t1 whites for 500 hours to achieve that goal.

That would be fair, except that there's a couple of major problems with it.

1) Most of the time you have ABSOLUTELY NO CLUE what kills you. Nor can you find out.

Usually in order to develop "skill," you have to have information. We aren't getting the information.

Like I was just doing an expedition logbook map. I was basically breezing through it and got 1 shot by the mobs that spawned on the last detonation. I have no idea what hit me. At all.

2) We can't repeat anything. We're kicked out of whatever we were trying, and oftentimes don't have the resources to try it again.

Developing skill requires the ability to repeat things, IE learning what you did wrong.

Most of the special fights are rare and far between - Citadels, Audience with the King, etc. If we're only getting 3 months a league, most players aren't going to be able to do these things enough to learn anything, if they even get there at all.

3) Most of the time, when you DO know what killed you, the solution is simply "Don't do that mechanic anymore."

IE Rituals. Most Ritual mechanics end up being "Stay the F out of this sh!t on the ground." Problem is, it's already a small area and it's filled with mobs trying to murder you. I'm currently a ranged build, so that just doesn't work most of the time. Especially the tornado of rats.

So my solution is "avoid Rituals entirely." Not exactly a good message to send to your players. This is much like some map modifiers in PoE1. The solution wasn't "develop skills," it was "avoid this modifier entirely."

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Akedomo#3573 написал:

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ogmersault#4806 написал:

Next time you play, aim for lvl 90 and pretend it’s max level. Anything you get beyond that think of as extra. Ignore comet this point and try more challenging content. Slogging through low level content to level sounds unbearably dull, and I can’t imagine a scenario where anyone thought this was a good idea. It seems futile because it is, but if you try to aim for different goals, maybe you will enjoy yourself. Just remind yourself that in this game lvl 100 doesn’t matter.

Hey thanks. However, this entire statement of yours is invalidating, and it fails to address the issues I raised.

Healthy communication involves acknowledgement of someone's feelings. Not just offering advice that completely contradicts their feelings and fails to address what was brought up.

I'm here to help teach if you're willing.

Well someone elses feelings are quite opposite from yours. Xp loss removal would trivialize the game and make lvl 100 nothing but a participation trophy. xp loss makes u actually work and improve ur build to even get to lvl 100 at all which to many people is part of the challenge. Poe was never meant to be ez or have lvl 100 be something u would automatically get for playing X amount of hours, its considered an achievement by a huge part of the community and the xp loss ensures that many of the more hardcore players are engaged for longer in a new league setting . There are so many reasons why it should stay as it is and i know GGG have even more reasons than i can think of but the new casual players seem to ignore every single reason and not acknowledge these things because they feel like they have every right to lvl 100 or their personal feelings get hurt even though they might not have the skill,experience,build or the time needed to actually get there.

Lvl 100 is not needed for any build nor is it a prerequisite for anything in the game. lvl 90+ is pretty much the goal for most builds and anything past this point is nothing but a little extra, its not make or break.

So in the end set ur goal according to ur skill lvl, experience and how much time u have to play the game and stop trying to ruin the game for people who have much more experience and time cause they need goals too and spend way more time each league than the new casual audience and it shows in player retention + they are the ones making all the build guides that any less experienced player can use.

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MrPedez#4934 написал:

Well someone elses feelings are quite opposite from yours. Xp loss removal would trivialize the game and make lvl 100 nothing but a participation trophy. xp loss makes u actually work and improve ur build to even get to lvl 100 at all which to many people is part of the challenge. Poe was never meant to be ez or have lvl 100 be something u would automatically get for playing X amount of hours, its considered an achievement by a huge part of the community and the xp loss ensures that many of the more hardcore players are engaged for longer in a new league setting . There are so many reasons why it should stay as it is and i know GGG have even more reasons than i can think of but the new casual players seem to ignore every single reason and not acknowledge these things because they feel like they have every right to lvl 100 or their personal feelings get hurt even though they might not have the skill,experience,build or the time needed to actually get there.

Lvl 100 is not needed for any build nor is it a prerequisite for anything in the game. lvl 90+ is pretty much the goal for most builds and anything past this point is nothing but a little extra, its not make or break.

So in the end set ur goal according to ur skill lvl, experience and how much time u have to play the game and stop trying to ruin the game for people who have much more experience and time cause they need goals too and spend way more time each league than the new casual audience and it shows in player retention + they are the ones making all the build guides that any less experienced player can use.

That's great. Everyone is allowed to have different feelings on things. This is what makes the world a great place!

However, The rest of your post is straight up invalidation in several different ways.

First. My feelings were not acknowledged. To have a proper conversation with someone, and to show that you understand them. Usually an effort is made to restate what someone said. In your own words. You completely ignored this part, and just made the statement "Well someone elses feelings are quite opposite from yours." and then started to list all the reasons you think I'm wrong.

Second, You give a lot of unsolicited advice in your statement here. Usually this is asked for.

Third, Your advice also goes a step further in the form of trying to 'correct' my viewpoint. As if I am just playing the game wrong. This is shown multiple times. You state your own feelings, but never acknowledged mine. This is followed by lengthy statements of GGG agreeing with you. Or that I just need to change my viewpoint and play the game differently. Unfortunately, that's not how feelings work. You can't logic or argue them away. It's clear you view the situation differently, but that doesn't mean your opinion is right, or the correct one. Or that you're allowed to tell others how to think about it. It doesn't mean, what works for you, will work for me.


This is an entirely one-sided conversation because you're too busy trying to force your viewpoint on me. Instead of taking the effort to understand mine first. You cannot have a conversation unless you listen. Which you simply haven't done. You read one statement, and then immediately wrote 2 paragraphs about how your viewpoint is better.


We can practice some if you want. It's a very useful skill!

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Akedomo#3573 написал:

First. My feelings were not acknowledged. To have a proper conversation with someone, and to show that you understand them. Usually an effort is made to restate what someone said. In your own words. You completely ignored this part, and just made the statement "Well someone elses feelings are quite opposite from yours." and then started to list all the reasons you think I'm wrong.

This isn't therapy. We're talking about death penalties, not anyone's feelings.

The fact is the penalties make the game easier. They prevent GGG from implementing content that requires multiple deaths to learn and overcome.

That is the issue. The system drives players to avoid risk and play the easiest content they can while still progressing, rather than encouraging them to juice the maps to the point they will likely die.

If death penalty were a toggle then the majority would toggle them off and if you add in the devs removing the death losses the map and locks the boss. That means that you can zerg some of the content. Meaning keep throwing bodies at it till you beat it. Besides PoE 1 has the same death penalty in experience as well. If you want to play a game that has virtually no death penalty go play City of Heroes Homecoming. The death penalty in that game is experience debt. Meaning that you only earn 50% experience towards the next level while the other 50% goes to pay off the debt. But it is so forgiving that in a couple of missions you will have worked off the debt that is unless you are dy9ing a lot then there is a problem with your build in the game.

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Mouser#2899 написал:

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ogmersault#4806 написал:

Slogging through low level content to level sounds unbearably dull, and I can’t imagine a scenario where anyone thought this was a good idea(grinding low level content, that is).

And yet, this is what the XP penalty is designed to push people toward.

The punishment is there to teach people to avoid challenging content, and to mindlessly grind on the easiest content that still gives XP.

GGG is making a punishing game so they don't have to bother making a challenging one.

You want a sense of achievement? Ask for content that takes skill to overcome.

No. You don’t know why they designed it. You just made up the reason and decided you were correct. Slogging through is a choice you made because you don’t like losing xp, and feel there isnt enough incentive for you to risk it trying harder content,.They need to incentivize higher tiered content appropriately, so that lvl 100 isn’t all you want. This isnt the type of game where you log into your account and you have 1 of every class sitting at max level. It makes sense for games like world of warcraft, or any in the mmo genre
where end game content is balanced around a singular max level.