Why dedicate my time if I can lose all my XP with a death penalty?

"

Whatever GGG thinks/feels about it and why they designed is it not only meaningless, it has no bearing or weight on the topic.
Regardless of why you design a product, what ultimately matters is how a consumer perceives it. You want something but it causes a different effect? You failed, objectively. No counterargument.
You want to achieve what you failed at? Back to the drawing board. As such any argument in that direction simply means nothing because you argue for contradicting things.

You assume every consumer wants this out of the product, when there is no metric giving you that information. Also, the old adage,”the customer is always right” is a pretty dated axiom that isnt really relevant to society anymore. Companies regularly ignore parts of their customer base when they feel like the advice will do more harm to their product than good. They always have done this, but that’s an entirely different conversation. It’s ultimately up to GGG to decide if that’s the case or not. The customer simply provides feedback.

It is possible to change a customers perception in more than one way and it doesn’t always have to be the way one particular subset of the customer base wanted. That goes for what you want AND what I want.

I'm amazed by how violent the antagonism is over even the slightest punishment for death or failure. This must be why so many games end up sanded down to nothing but round edges, unwilling to push or punish people.

I definitely feel like the game has some things right now that ought to be taken out or balanced for that kind of punishment to feel fair or fine, but I don't think the punishment of 10% xp and a map is itself inherently bad.
I wonder what people's opinions would be with it if the new endgame were more fine tuned around it and more balanced than it currently is.

I think when you run a game like this it becomes very difficult when you gather up large groups of people who have different opinions and want different things out of the game, hopefully ggg can manage them all (and serve all their interests) well in some way going forwards.

I've already posted too much today but I have to say I love the turn of phrase of "sanded down to nothing but round edges"

insert Fasbender perfection meme here.

Agreed. I just can't imagine how 10% XP has so many people so hot and bothered, and I can't help but feel like the moment they don't have 10% xp loss they'll come gunning for the next thing that punishes them IN ANY WAY for being unwilling to game, adapt and overcome.

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Akedomo#3573 написал:

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ogmersault#4806 написал:

Hence the reason I said incentivizing challenging content appropriately, which you conveniently left out of the quote. This can easily turn FEELING like a punishment into just a CONSEQUENCE of dying. Don’t conflate the two please. I understand your frustration with losing xp. Im not trying to hurt your feelings, or pretend they don’t exist. I just disagree with your solution, because it isn’t going to have the outcome you believe it will.

Lets take a minute and look at this.

You clearly value the game being difficult and challenging. Well, I do to! I agree completely. I want a game to have a decent challenge to it. I don't like playing super easy games, they don't feel rewarding.

So, we want a game to feel challenging and rewarding. Right?

So, why wouldn't we make the game with some really hard bosses, or zones, that are required, before you're allowed to level up to 100?

Do you remember all the Unique Maps from PoE 1? Why not implement something like that. That a player has to beat in order to level up?

Why does it have to be XP loss on death? To me, XP loss on death seems like a great way for GGG to avoid having to put some thought or effort behind the game.

Why not ask for them to make better challenges in the game? That's what I'm asking for. Get rid of the cheap mechanics, and do some tough work and improve the game.

it’s because you are not gated by anything. 100 is just an arbitrary number at this point in the game. You can try challenging content regardless of whether or not your xp bar goes up or down. YOU are the gate in this scenario. Your choice to pursue 100 at all costs, including the fun you have playing it, is the gate you are creating for yourself. The xp penalty is just something that happens when you die.

I I don’t think you’re coming from a bad place, or having this discussion in bad faith.

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BK2710#6123 написал:

Whatever GGG thinks/feels about it and why they designed is it not only meaningless, it has no bearing or weight on the topic.

Wow... look without getting muted for being honest about how impossibly entitled you come across I have to say: you've picked the wrong game to play if you think they care more about pandering to customers for money than they do about making a cool game they want to play.

If you want a company to pander to you and tell you you're good at the videogame by removing all the things that indicate you aren't then you might want Blizzard products. Highly recommended for that use case.

You have to understand. According to "The Vision" players must feel the weight of punishment of not treading carefully (while mobs directed all kinds of one shot attacks to you).

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ogmersault#4806 написал:

YOU are the gate in this scenario.

the gaslighting is unreal tbh.

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toxiitea#5772 написал:

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ogmersault#4806 написал:

YOU are the gate in this scenario.

the gaslighting is unreal tbh.

You as in,”the person playing”, It refers to me, as much as them, and you. Don’t make this personal. I’ve been nothing but civil, and what I said is fair . I hold no ill will towards the person I was responding to, or anyone else in this forum. Can we try to keep this on topic instead of trying to constantly twist any words people use to make this about being politically correct. I assure you, I’m talking solely about the game and how we interact with it. Fair?


I disagree with them that’s all.

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ogmersault#4806 написал:

it’s because you are not gated by anything. 100 is just an arbitrary number at this point in the game. You can try challenging content regardless of whether or not your xp bar goes up or down. YOU are the gate in this scenario. Your choice to pursue 100 at all costs, including the fun you have playing it, is the gate you are creating for yourself. The xp penalty is just something that happens when you die.

I I don’t think you’re coming from a bad place, or having this discussion in bad faith.

Here's the thing. You're totally right about choosing not to engage with the mechanic or not. It's totally your choice.


What people are trying to tell you though. Is that the mechanic, is not having the intended effect on the majority of players.

A small percentage of the playerbase, 10-15%, Value the mechanic. Have no problem with it, or might even enjoy it. And engage with it.

The other 85-90%. Do not. When they encounter the mechanic. They make the choice not to engage with it, by quitting the game. Or completely avoiding end-game content. Or they'll actively avoid more difficult content, because dying is too punishing.

For me. It's just a frustrating mechanic.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Think of it this way.



You're playing Skyrim, or Baldur's gate 3, or maybe Darksouls or Elden Ring.

You load into the game, and you're playing for 5 hours. Then your game crashes randomly.

And you realize, you never saved, not once throughout that 5 hour play session.

How do you feel after this?




I don't think you're arguing in bad faith either. I realize the issue is one of communication. That's why I've been trying to help a few people understand a bit better. Not everyone is taught, or taught well.

I think they should have a kill-streak mechanic or something where you get incremental increases to quant or rarity or something you could maybe even choose from that increases over the time that you don't die. I've gotten to 100 in POE1 and I expect to at least with some of my characters here, but I do think the death penalty is just kind of boring and archaic. Never been a deal breaker, just dull.