Why are only melee punished by weapon specific skill gems?

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wrathmar написал:

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Xaxyx написал:

Interesting analysis. What's even more interesting is when you turn it sideways:

Melee gems: Avg 64.7% of weapon options allowed
Bow gems: Avg 100% of weapon options allowed

Thus, fully one third of the time, on average, a melee gem skill is arbitrarily forbidden from employing the use of any given mainhand melee weapon -- for no particularly good reason.

You are placing bows in their own class again. Bows are a subtype not a class.

This. Bows are as specific as swords. When a skill says Bow, it means BOW.

Instead of thinking of it in percentages, answer this question:

How many skills can specifically be used with a Bow?
How many skills can specifically be used with a Sword?

Is there really as big of a difference as you think? I'm actually going to guess that the dude with the sword has more skills open to him.

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"Xaxyx написал:

Ok, if you get ground slam...you got a sword, you can't ground slam. GUARANTEED.

ok, this is just a dumb comment. If ground slam drops as your first skill on the beach. A mace also dropped as your first weapon. Guaranteed.

For real I am done, this pushed it over the edge. I dont want to call names, but your response just feels like trolling.

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LostForm написал:

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"Xaxyx написал:

Ok, if you get ground slam...you got a sword, you can't ground slam. GUARANTEED.

ok, this is just a dumb comment. If ground slam drops as your first skill on the beach. A mace also dropped as your first weapon. Guaranteed.

For real I am done, this pushed it over the edge. I dont want to call names, but your response just feels like trolling.

I'm feeling the same way. His point-by-point breakdown is using arguments not entirely centric to the purpose of this thread. I feel more like he found a really good sword on his GS rauder that he wants to use. :P

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LostForm написал:

ok, this is just a dumb comment.

Tsk, tsk. Have you learned nothing from this thread? Sticks and stones, sir.

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If ground slam drops as your first skill on the beach. A mace also dropped as your first weapon. Guaranteed.

This is Path of Exile we're talking about, right? At this point, I need to confirm everything with you.

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For real I am done, this pushed it over the edge. I dont want to call names, but your response just feels like trolling.

Oh, "for real". That clarifies things. See you next time.

Xaxyx I remember you from the loot thread. I don’t always agree with you but your arguments tend to be solid and sometimes comical. If you are still in school you should think about joining the debate team, you have a knack for it.

/respect

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Terrornoid написал:

I'm feeling the same way. His point-by-point breakdown is using arguments not entirely centric to the purpose of this thread. I feel more like he found a really good sword on his GS rauder that he wants to use. :P

And then his last comment...implying it is RNG that decides a drift wood mace will drop for characters that get ground slam first, like we have never played the game before. First weapons are fixed there other guy.

Dude needs to get a clue that games have mechanics for a reason and his "wanting" something really badly is probably not the best reason to change core mechanics.

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HopTortoise написал:

This. Bows are as specific as swords. When a skill says Bow, it means BOW.

And here I thought it meant "marshmallow". This explains far more than I care to admit.

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Instead of thinking of it in percentages, answer this question:

How many skills can specifically be used with a Bow?
How many skills can specifically be used with a Sword?

Is there really as big of a difference as you think? I'm actually going to guess that the dude with the sword has more skills open to him.

A still more betterer set of questions would be:

How many ranged skills specifically CAN'T be used with a bow? (1)
How many melee skills specifically CAN'T be used with a sword? (3 one-handed, 6 two-handed)
How many melee skills specifically CAN'T be used with a dagger? (7)
How many melee skills specifically CAN'T be used unarmed? (14)

Admittedly, I don't have a terrible amount of sympathy for unarmed characters (and I have one myself, as it happens). But having so many skill restrictions on melee weapons strikes me as wholly unnecessary.

I think we have fundamental differences in universal outlook.

If I find a bow, my first question would be...what CAN I use with it?

The same thought process would happen with a sword.

Of the available options, I then pick one that works. Or, if there are no available options that work or far too few, I might point that out as cause for concern.

You can't tell anything by comparing the amounts of skills that cannot be used under arbitrary situations.

Sure, there are less ranged skills restricted to me if I use a bow. There are also far less bow skills overall. GGG has stated down the road that a Crossbow might be added to the game. You can be sure that there will be skills that work with a crossbow, and not a bow, and vice versa.

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Terrornoid написал:

I'm feeling the same way. His point-by-point breakdown is using arguments not entirely centric to the purpose of this thread. I feel more like he found a really good sword on his GS rauder that he wants to use. :P

If only.

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LostForm написал:

And then his last comment...implying it is RNG that decides a drift wood mace will drop for characters that get ground slam first, like we have never played the game before. First weapons are fixed there other guy.

When you're done arguing with your parallel universe friend, come back to this one, where you'll discover that (a) at no time did I claim that the very first item that drops is based on RNG, and (b) at no time did I claim that the very first gem dropping was Ground Slam. Astoundingly enough -- perhaps you've forgotten this, since somehow you're skipping the Twilight Strand entirely -- other items can drop! In the zone! When you kill monsters! Yippee!

Thus, scenario (and I'll spell this out slowly and carefully for you, so there's no possibility of misunderstanding *snicker*):

1) Character starts game fresh, new, and nekkid.
2) Character kills zombie #1, gets (insert starting weapon here) and (insert starting gem here).
3) Character kills another monster, finds a sword, switches to sword.
4) Character kills another monster, finds a Ground Slam gem, sockets Ground Slam.
5) Character can't use Ground Slam.

Yes, the character can rummage around for a mace. Perhaps he started with one, perhaps he'll find one, perhaps he'll buy one, perhaps a friend will give him one. And that's nice and all. Touching, even. But I don't care. I care about the simple, boring fact that he can't Ground Slam with the sword. That's all. End of file.

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HopTortoise написал:

I think we have fundamental differences in universal outlook.

That can happen.

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If I find a bow, my first question would be...what CAN I use with it?

So far so good.

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The same thought process would happen with a sword.

I like where your head's at.

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Of the available options, I then pick one that works. Or, if there are no available options that work or far too few, I might point that out as cause for concern.

Whereas, when I have an option that I'd really like to use, and can't, for no particular reason whatsoever, then I point THAT out for cause for concern. And thus our universes diverge.

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You can't tell anything by comparing the amounts of skills that cannot be used under arbitrary situations.

Sure I can. I can tell how many combinations of weapon and gem there are that don't work. I can then question why those scenarios exist. I can also question why, out of all of those scenarios, the vast, vast majority of them apply exclusively to melee. I can do that. I'm inquisitive.

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Sure, there are less ranged skills restricted to me if I use a bow. There are also far less bow skills overall. GGG has stated down the road that a Crossbow might be added to the game. You can be sure that there will be skills that work with a crossbow, and not a bow, and vice versa.

Believe you me, I'm not in the habit of taking anything on faith when it comes to GGG. Thus, my only concern is the here-and-now. And here-and-now, melee is getting the hose. Enabling these weapon and gem combos will serve to ameliorate their suffering to some small extent.