Why are only melee punished by weapon specific skill gems?

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Sickness написал:
Your premise is all wrong and backwards. What you need to do is to simply look at each weapon type speraratly and see how many skills they can use, not to look at how many skills from some arbitrary ranged and melee categories they can't use.

I'll look at it any way I see fit, thanks awfully. I look at the sword in my hand and the Ground Slam gem in my inventory. And I wonder why I can slam the ground with a mace, and not with my sword. Then I look at the next guy, who can use either a mace OR a sword with his Heavy Strike. And I wonder what in the hell purpose it serves giving him freedom and versatility, but restricting me.
GREENS vs. REDS: http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/392/page/246#p811501
The Prisoner's Dilemma: http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/392/page/262#p813428
Lethal_papercut's discussion with Chris: http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/392/page/235#p806542
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Xaxyx написал:
I think I'm making logical arguments, but I'm actually a cotton headed ninny muggins.


How many people do you need to tell you the exact same things for you to get it? It's multiple people telling you the same things and you just belittle or sarcasm your way into thinking you are still somehow correct. I'm literally tired of trying to explain this to you. I even brought in facts and you just dismiss them. Whatever, dude.

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Xaxyx написал:
I regularly win arguments with my lamp.

You sure?
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Xaxyx написал:
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Sickness написал:
Your premise is all wrong and backwards. What you need to do is to simply look at each weapon type speraratly and see how many skills they can use, not to look at how many skills from some arbitrary ranged and melee categories they can't use.

I'll look at it any way I see fit, thanks awfully. I look at the sword in my hand and the Ground Slam gem in my inventory. And I wonder why I can slam the ground with a mace, and not with my sword. Then I look at the next guy, who can use either a mace OR a sword with his Heavy Strike. And I wonder what in the hell purpose it serves giving him freedom and versatility, but restricting me.


So, to quote my first post:
Is the problem that you can't LA with a sword?


I think it makes perfect sense that different skills have different weapon restrictions. Weapons are less homogenous that way, and the choice of what weapon you should use and spec for gets alot more interesting.



It's still not about melee vs ranged.
Последняя редакция: Sickness#1007. Время: 10 мая 2013 г., 23:28:16
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Terrornoid написал:
How many people do you need to tell you the exact same things for you to get it? It's multiple people telling you the same things and you just belittle or sarcasm your way into thinking you are still somehow correct. I'm literally tired of trying to explain this to you. I even brought in facts and you just dismiss them. Whatever, dude.

You've fallen victim, alas, to a stereotypical response: your opponent chooses not to accept the validity of your claims, while simultaneously retaining confidence in his own claims; thus you assume that the opponent must be trolling. By doing so, you utterly discount several possibilities: that perhaps your opponent really does believe what he's saying; that you've failed to demonstrate your point in a sufficient manner; or, FSM forbid, you may actually be WRONG. Unable to accept any of these possibilities -- and, apparently, unable to embrace the sufficiently mature stance of mutual acceptance, or agreeing to disagree -- you've instead elected to become the troll yourself, to become that which you seem to fear.

When you decide to instead have an adult conversation, let me know. I'll be here.
GREENS vs. REDS: http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/392/page/246#p811501
The Prisoner's Dilemma: http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/392/page/262#p813428
Lethal_papercut's discussion with Chris: http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/392/page/235#p806542
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Sickness написал:
So, to quote my first post:
Is the problem that you can't LA with a sword?

No, the problem is that you can perform a MELEE attack with one MELEE weapon, but not that same MELEE attack with another MELEE weapon. Melee.

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I think it makes perfect sense that different skills have different weapon restrictions. Weapons are less homogenous that way, and the choice of what weapon you should use and spec for gets alot more interesting.

Whereas, I think it makes perfect sense for different weapon TYPES -- melee, ranged -- to have different weapon restrictions. But it makes NO sense to arbitrarily apply those restrictions within weapon TYPES -- melee, ranged -- particularly when doing so against one TYPE but not the other.

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It's still not about melee vs ranged.

It's still about melee vs. ranged. At least, melee vs. bow, the more popular and widely used ranged weapon. Wands seem to suffer even moreso than melee, I seem to have discovered on this thread. I'm not terribly interested in marching for the wand wielder's cause at the moment, admittedly, but I'm ready to be convinced.
GREENS vs. REDS: http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/392/page/246#p811501
The Prisoner's Dilemma: http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/392/page/262#p813428
Lethal_papercut's discussion with Chris: http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/392/page/235#p806542
Mate, if you take all melee weapons together into a general melee cathegory,you should do the same for all ranged weapons (ranged = bow or wand) and a wand can't use bow skills and a bow can't use wand skills (well OK we have only power syphone here, but this is still true); but there are some general skills which can be used by both (ele hit for example).

So ranged weapons are in the same situation as melee weapons, but there are far less different types of ranged weapons.
Melee weapons also have some 'restricted' skills (ground slam for maces/sceptes/staves, cleave for swords/axes) and some general skill any melee weapon can use e.g. Double strike.
Proud 5th duelist in the Jul 1 2012 Ladder Race and in the Nov 3 2012 Solo Turbo Race :D
And even prouder 4th Templar in the Nov 10 Four-hour Party Hardcore Race :P
Current OB success:
top 20 Ranger in 105 Minute Turbo Solo (S4E9)
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Sony_Black написал:
Mate, if you take all melee weapons together into a general melee cathegory,you should do the same for all ranged weapons (ranged = bow or wand) and a wand can't use bow skills and a bow can't use wand skills (well OK we have only power syphone here, but this is still true); but there are some general skills which can be used by both (ele hit for example).

Then I'm compelled to assert that wand should possess similar versatility, for consistency's sake.

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So ranged weapons are in the same situation as melee weapons, but there are far less different types of ranged weapons.

Which is still yet another concern, arguably, though hardly game-breaking I might assert.

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Melee weapons also have some 'restricted' skills (ground slam for maces/sceptes/staves, cleave for swords/axes) and some general skill any melee weapon can use e.g. Double strike.

And it is the both the lack of purpose behind this restriction and its negative ramifications that I critique here.
GREENS vs. REDS: http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/392/page/246#p811501
The Prisoner's Dilemma: http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/392/page/262#p813428
Lethal_papercut's discussion with Chris: http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/392/page/235#p806542
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Xaxyx написал:
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Sickness написал:
So, to quote my first post:
Is the problem that you can't LA with a sword?

No, the problem is that you can perform a MELEE attack with one MELEE weapon, but not that same MELEE attack with another MELEE weapon. Melee.

Your still stuck thinking melee weapons as a single category when their not.
There are multiple differend weapon types and they all have multiple skills that can be used with them and multiple skill that can't.
Axes can only use skill that work with axes.
Bows can only use skills that work with bows.
Swords can only use skills that work with sword.
ETC.
"An it harm none, do what you will"
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Xaxyx написал:
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Sickness написал:
So, to quote my first post:
Is the problem that you can't LA with a sword?

No, the problem is that you can perform a MELEE attack with one MELEE weapon, but not that same MELEE attack with another MELEE weapon. Melee.


Every attack with every weapon. Every MELEE attack with every MELEE weapon. The difference is arbitrary.
Cleaving something with your club does not inherintly make more sense than firing an arrow from your dagger.

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Xaxyx написал:

"
I think it makes perfect sense that different skills have different weapon restrictions. Weapons are less homogenous that way, and the choice of what weapon you should use and spec for gets alot more interesting.

Whereas, I think it makes perfect sense for different weapon TYPES -- melee, ranged -- to have different weapon restrictions. But it makes NO sense to arbitrarily apply those restrictions within weapon TYPES -- melee, ranged -- particularly when doing so against one TYPE but not the other.


You are really not listening. The weapon types are NOT melee and ranged, they are bow, sword, axe, dagger etc etc.
This is only confusing for you because there are so few different ranged weapons. Imagine if there were more, then I'm sure that there would be alot more skills that were restricted to specific ranged weapons. That would be the natural thing, and the mechanics does not change at all.

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Xaxyx написал:

"
It's still not about melee vs ranged.

It's still about melee vs. ranged. At least, melee vs. bow, the more popular and widely used ranged weapon. Wands seem to suffer even moreso than melee, I seem to have discovered on this thread. I'm not terribly interested in marching for the wand wielder's cause at the moment, admittedly, but I'm ready to be convinced.


Look at each weapon type speraratly and see how many skills they can use. Don't look at how many skills from some arbitrary ranged and melee categories they can't use, because then you are comparing something that is completely irrelevant.
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pengant написал:
Why are these restrictions still in the game?

Bow user - No restriction
Spell caster - No restriction
Melee user - 1 handed only, 2 handed only, mace only, sword only.

Why?

You acknowledge that melee is not where it should be right now, yet your still not thinking about changes being put into the game.

Most recent patch gives skill gem puncture to 2 handed swords, but any melee using a mace or an axe can't even try it? Same with lots of other melee skills. I don't understand why you feel this is needed. Are melee expected to have 1 amazing weapon of each type? Imagine finding an amazing 600 dps rare axe as a melee and wanting to use ground slam or glacial hammer as your main attack. You'd be gutted. Find a similarly amazing bow or staff or wand and you'd be thrilled as you should be, because it doesn't matter what skill you prefer to use.

Not only is this pointless and annoying as a melee, you havn't even done it right to start with and given literally 0 skill gems that are specific to 2 handed axes. If each of the weapon types had an amazing skill specific to them I guess it would be easier to swallow but still absolutely pointless and annoying....but you didn't even do that.






Cos, almost all melee weapons have Implicit Mods on them, thus making them unique in their own way.





Perm. Retired from this unforgiving land of the Exiles.
Self-impost EXILED.

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