Merchant tab is NOT an upgrade.
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Alright I'll break it down for you one last time.
" All of the above. They are not mutually exclusive. " Because I lose functionality. " Because the tab in itself is great. " Because I lost functionality. " The thread is not about me not liking trading. " No it isn't. It's you misunderstanding my argument and not being able to differ the two. I am criticizing that they offered it as an upgrade. That is not the same as saying I don't like the tabs or the new trading system. " It does though. " Both. " well, ish. " To you. " According to you. " According to you. " Sure bud. " You've said since early on one of your objectives is to bring me down a beg or 12. You're calling me a hypocrite, nitpicking my arguments trying to get a gotcha moment on me. Either start discussing in good faith or move on dude. " Yeah, I just can't help myself. Последняя редакция: DevourerAdol#4490. Время: 16 сент. 2025 г., 17:25:41
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" I did miss the huge long posts, my fault on that. I read the beginning and the ending pages. I'll totally answer the question though! I think a viable solution to that problem in particular would be to do the same thing they did with currency exchange, allow for players to interact with their shop from any gambling NPC. Your teleport location as a buyer doesn't have to change, be sent to their hideout. If they don't have a hideout, create a default stripped down hideout with no allowance for decor for players to have on player creation. You can make an "Optimised box" using a single texture and box mesh very simply and then you don't have to change code for a single thing to accommodate that request. Bots and players still have to play the game to buy things due to gold fees so that problem I'd say is a non-starter To address the PoE1 bit "It will be" doesn't make it any (Edit here -> "less", what I meant to say was "More") convenient for the players of "Right now" who engage in Standard or Mercenary league still, it's still a valid complaint and a valid request for a consumer protective approach to be looked into. Simple warnings on conversion purchase would do just fine and eliminate fault from GGG's end. Players making mistakes or not doing their own research doesn't mean a company doesn't need to or ought not to take the steps to ensure that the consumer had every reasonable opportunity to understand and fully agree to their purchase. It's basic consumer protection, yeah? "Buying this results in these things. - - - Are you sure? Y/N" If there's anything else I missed I'll be glad to weigh in on those, too! Let me know and let's enjoy the convo! Последняя редакция: MathiasSoul#7397. Время: 16 сент. 2025 г., 17:57:36
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Adding further;
I'd present this as more of an "Ethics" problem than an issue with actual functionality. Putting it into a personal perspective, I'll tell you a little bit about my job: I'm a 3D VR Avatar Creator for games like VR Chat or Neo VR, IMVU, so on, One of the things we do is utilise a community made Shader system called Poiyomi Shaders, Poiyomi has a free stripped down version, and a paid for Pro version, essentially the full package. Costs like $15 USD. Stay with me a bit here- For us to sell a license for personal use on our Avatars and provide the source files, a consumer must own and import their own file for Poiyomi. It is against the license Poiyomi provides us to include it in the package. So here's where ethics as a provider to the consumer comes in: Option 1: We list the Avatar license and source file for $45. Consumer purchases it, no information on the Shaders used provided. UNETHICAL, the consumer was provided exactly what we listed, the Avatar license, but cannot upload and use it because the information necessary to do so was not provided. Option 2: We list the Avatar license and source file for $45. We state on our shop page that it uses Poiyomi Pro. MORE ETHICAL, but still problematic, if the consumer came in with only a budget of $45, this means they are going to get an unexpected fee if they don't know that Poiyomi Pro costs $15 to purchase, limiting them from using the Avatar until they come up with more funds (Sounding familiar to OP's problem?) Option 3: We list the Avatar license and source file for $45. We state on our shop page that it uses Poiyomi Pro, we list Poiyomi's price and provide a direct link to purchase it from the provider directly. ETHICAL, the consumer is appropriately educated, knows what to expect, and knows that their budget must now cover $60 to own AND USE the Avatar in question. However, this damages sales, a consumer with a budget of $45 will not be able to purchase the avatar. Option 4 (This is my method): We list the Avatar license and source file for $45. We state on our shop page that it uses Poiyomi Pro, we list Poiyomi's price and provide a direct link to purchase it from the provider directly. Additionally, we provide a discount code "POIPRO" for the exact cost of Poiyomi Pro. MOST ETHICAL, the consumer came in expecting to pay $45, received full education on the necessary add-ons for the purchase, and additionally left the shop spending exactly what they expected to spend. Seller benefits by still making a sale on those with the budget of our listed price. |
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So the best long story short on the OP's points is:
They like the tabs and the system overall. However they do not like the terminology of "Upgrade" being used to encourage sales PAIRED WITH lack of UPFRONT information provided by the seller. In OP's case, they were led to a false conclusion due to this omission of information and ended up "Overspending" as a result. This placed them in an incredibly inconvenient situation and left them with a sense of what's called "Buyer's Remorse". OP is complaining about this in particular in order to shine a light on the poor experience and request there be a more friendly consumer approach going forward. Arguing functionality and logistics when it's an ethical matter leads to a poor debate and that's really why you're feeling the strain and feeling misunderstood. You have to take it to ethics. Am I more or less correct here? @Devourer |
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" Spot on. Thank you for taking your time to summaries it so well, couldn't have done it better myself :) Very good points about ethics in your previous post as well. Cheers bud. |
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" Awesome! I'm glad I was able to understand the intent and reiterate it, it's an important topic to bring up so you did good to post on it! |
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I myself haven't ''upgraded'' any tabs until they confirm they'll work on next poe league nor got any tabs out of sale due to all the forced milking behaviour.
The arbitraty restriction of only making pre 0.3 tabs upgradable is stupid. zero tech issues there just to combo with the ''not yet on sale'' last weekend It's all planned out. Even making it a separate product is stupid. It should just be an in-game toggle for premium tabs to become instant buyout tabs All the annoyances and lack of clarity are intended |
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" the dude is butt hurt. and projecting his 'feelings' as facts. here are some more facts. you were warned multiple times, in multiple streams and reveals about the conversion, and in detail, explained what it was, what will happen, and how to do it. this didnt happen over night. the community knew about this A MONTH OR SO prior to patch .3. you were warned in the patch notes, again. you were warned when you logged in the poe account page, and clicked to merge, again. and then you were warned after clicking yes, again. this isnt buyers remorse. this is someone throwing a hissy fit, cuz he doesnt like HOW something was said. there is nothing ethically wrong with what ggg did. infact, what they did, was extremely ethical. it was done in complete good faith, and extremely consumer friendly. the product you purchased(the premium tab), was still there, functioning as it always did. and it still does to this very millisecond. you can in fact, go buy, a premium tab right now and it does exactly what it did 10 years ago. you had the "one time" choice to change that purchase, in most cases, YEARS ... YEEEEEEEAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRSSSSSSSSSSS after purchase.... which was EXTREMELY GENEROUS AND ETHICAL to do so. ggg was literally applauded for doing this. or to keep the still completely functional tab as it was. if you converted your tabs, and regret it... thats on you. i have no idea why you would regret it, as the merchant tab is the greatest addition to poe ever (outside currency exchange)... but hey. thats w/e. you can FEEL that way. what you dont do, is go throwing misinformation on the forum around based off your temper tantrum feelings. like this dude did by saying it isnt an upgrade... it 100% is. the new tab does what the premium tab used to, just now it is automated, requiring no player interaction, no pms, no haggle'n, no bs, no price fixing, no 'actually its 10 div not 5'..... it saves time. it keeps players playing the game in maps, and saves INCREDIBLE ammounts of time for the buyer, who no longer has to PM 600 people for an item. that is an upgrade in any language, any definition, any country, and creed. to say otherwise, is disengenuous. and shows your true colors. which i saw. from the jump. i applaud your effort to 'empathize' with this kid. it is however, in vain. |
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" there was no miscommunication, or unethical 'sales' pushing. everything was detailed in explanation, very much prior to the option being actual availible to do. there is no unethical, purposily keep gaurded secrets regarding the merchant tab. it was explained multiple times, on multiple streams, on multiple platforms, by multiple people, and was everywhere on social media and reported on by countless CC's. you literally couldnt miss this information if you fn tried. no sir. there was no unethical behind the back marketting plan to screw us over and spend more money. you had two options. buy the new tab outright. convert FOR FREEEEEEE one of your(or more), most likely, not even used premium tabs into the new way to do what the premium tabs function was. trade with the merchant tab. there wasnt no secret penguin plan to destroy gotham and raid your savings. it was actually, one of the most ethical things done in gaming for quite some time. having something in one game, and having the chance to not only have that same thing in another game, but literally change that something, into something else. for free. that shit dont happen in gaming very often, if at all. and this dudes like.. well. it isnt even an upgrade.... even though i like the system get bennnnnt. he can take his hypocritical, holier than thou tone policing, somewhere else. Последняя редакция: Innuendos#5095. Время: 16 сент. 2025 г., 19:27:12
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" First, I think that ad hominem attacks tend to distract from the actual argument you're making. If you're against debates and conversations derailing, I'd advise not utilising inflammatory statements. In these kinds of conversations, you want to be actually listened to, right? People who are angry with you won't be listening. Second, I'll address this: "you were warned multiple times, in multiple streams and reveals about the conversion, and in detail, explained what it was, what will happen, and how to do it. this didnt happen over night. the community knew about this A MONTH OR SO prior to patch .3. you were warned in the patch notes, again. you were warned when you logged in the poe account page, and clicked to merge, again. and then you were warned after clicking yes, again." While it is true that multiple streams and reveals did discuss that merchant tabs would be different, they did not explicitly state that you had to complete act 4 (Specifically, Ange's hideout quest) in order to utilise the merchant tabs. Here is what they officially said: Availability of Merchant Tabs / Conversion timing In the Asynchronous Trade FAQ, GGG made it clear that Premium Stash Tabs purchased before patch 0.3.0 (the Third Edict, released August 29, 2025) can be converted into Merchant’s Tabs via account settings. Conversely, Premium Tabs bought after patch 0.3.0 cannot be converted. They also noted when the Merchant Tabs would become purchasable in the store. Restrictions on currency / types of items GGG explicitly said that Merchant Tabs cannot be used to trade currency items — i.e. the type of things generally handled via the “Currency Exchange” system are excluded. It was also stated that Merchant Tabs are not usable in SSF (Solo Self-Found) leagues. Hideout / NPC unlock / progression gating To use Merchant’s Tabs effectively (for selling/listing), players need to have the NPC “Ange” in their hideout. Unlocking this NPC is connected with progress — in particular, reaching Act 4 / completing certain quests. The FAQ mentions that you must have unlocked your hideout, which you can’t do until certain campaign progress (Act 4) in some cases. What they didn't do and why it wasn't ethical: - No warnings on purchase confirmation - When a player purchases a merchant tab, there is no warning about the effects this will actually have. No mention of the tab's limitations, or its progression locked availability. - No clarity that if you already have a hideout, Ange and the Merchant Tabs still cannot be utilised. - The progression lock was only implied with the specific statement "You only need to have Ange in your hideout" - No clarity on what would be detailed as "Currency items" - The listing of socketables and gems were not included in this FAQ section - Made their warnings prominent and easy to find - Players must have gone to outside sources from the game and follow media to receive these warnings. No warnings were, or currently are in game about the effects of the Merchant Tab - Did not provide sufficient consumer protections - There is nothing preventing players from converting every single tab they own (In cases of them only having Premium tabs, no quads, no league, no currency tabs) into merchant tabs, essentially removing every single bit of feasible storage they have from PoE1 AND PoE2's campaign on league start unless they spend extra money The similarity to this for me as a seller of digital merchandise would be that if I said in my Discord that Poiyomi Pro is included on my avatars and costs $15. Yes the information is out there, but it's not present in its most necessary and upfront place. The shop where it's purchased from. It is not the consumer's responsibility to find out information like the above on their own, that is not good ethics overall EVEN IF they did include some strong ethical points, there is room for improvement and that is really quite indisputable considering what they missed and the financial damages that can result from players converting every tab they own, purchasing a hideout in preparation of something that wasn't going to happen due to an implied statement instead of a clear one, purchasing premium QUAD tabs when their exclusion was left out. Here's another example of a player showing their frustrations due to the difficulty in finding information as well, showcasing this is not a standalone unshared complaint:  |
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