Why I've given up hope of this game becoming great (but not quite on GGG)

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Kranyum написал:

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Splift написал:

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Kranyum написал:

it's ironic to see how pretty much all the old supporters of the game such as Scrotie and Charan are expressing their dissapointment in the game. Because that's what the game currently is: a big dissapointment.

I would say its a success that they have kept such people interested for so long before they inevitably got bored.

Right vaal gems are stupid and pointless, lets just continue this meta where everyone uses one dps skill, one movement skill and one curse.

If Chris is rich from this its because they flat out deserved it. No other game has had less strings attached and less hooks in their "revenue stream".

Why would he listen to people talking with your tone? You come off as an arrogant, entitled brat and bending their knee to such people would surely bring about the games true demise.

lol brosky. Let's see your supporter titles? Don't got any? Then shut up.
I have supported about 400 dollars to this game, I am invested and I have the right to be emotional about it.
[removed by support]

Funny thing is you prove exactly what I was saying about you coming off as an entitled and arrogant kid in your reply. Giving GGG money does not give you any extra leverage in telling GGG how to make their game and it does not make your opinion more valid than anyone else.

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Poutsos написал:

I have 24 mgbps net and i encounter desync in 1 out of 3 attacks.

And if I remember right you play multistrike flicker builds? Not that it is a good excuse, but it is a build known to be more desync prone after all.

There are 2 main causes of desync in this game.

1. Network latency. Can't beat it, gotta live with it.

2. Bad client simulation code. Yes, there are huge problems here, that should have been taken care of a long time ago. Why is it that you can create an infinite loop where the monster on your client comes at you, but you attack it and nothing happens, desync is detected so it gets teleported back to its original spot... only to come back at you again, and teleport back again, and so on. This should never happen if the client simulation matches server decisions correctly. It doesn't.

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ScrotieMcB написал:

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Jiero написал:

I get a range of 50-100 ms ping depending on the day, my jitter is around the 15ms, my DL speed around 8mb/sec, my upload around 700kb/sec and this in on DSL.

Ping is obviously the most relevant stat. Mine's normally 30-50 despite much slower up and down speeds. Location, location, location.

Ping's very relevant, albeit in some seriously messed up ways.

Ever played the game at 15ms ping or below? It breaks. I don't know any other word to describe it beyond saying that it breaks.

Monsters get hit before you hit them, with melee attacks this just looks somewhat weird and slightly jarring, as if you're having high ping and you're actually getting delayed hits from previous swings.

With projectiles it's much worse. Monsters get hit, and die, before your client-side projectile reaches them. Because client-side the monster's now no longer there your projectile keeps flying and doesn't collide with the already dead enemy.

PoE's designed for 30-100 ms ping. Even with those pings you get some desync but once you leave that range the client prediction completely and utterly breaks down.

My point really is that people may not be exaggerating that much after all. Some most definitely are but others are bound to be playing the game outside the optimal range of ping that the client prediction was tweaked for and thus suffer from vastly more noticeable effects of desync.

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ScrotieMcB написал:

The past few days, I've been playing a lot of this game called Divinity: Original Sin (DOS). Released about a week ago, it's a modern-graphics version of the old turn-based computer RPG combat, and thus is not in direct competition with ARPGs at all.

However, it has a certain... "unity of design," perhaps, is the best term for it... which really made me think about Path of Exile. See, deciding to go with turn-based combat isn't a very good system if you don't optimize for it, which is something DOS's creators clearly understand. Turn-based combat, at its heart, is about allowing for a large amount of strategic play, since players have theoretically unlimited time to ponder each move they make. DOS embraces this by making virtually every element of its environment alterable, to such an extent that you could almost call DOS a "battlefield manipulation" game, where the key to success often lies in creating clouds of smoke (which block vision) or electrifying a nearby stream to electrocute any who attempt to ford it. The game has thrown several difficult challenges at me so far, prompting numerous "game over" and reloads, but I've never felt gear-checked... instead, I've always felt I couldn't stack enough advantage through positional and environmental gameplay, that I didn't come up with the right moves.

It's truly a beautiful thing seeing how the devs beyond DOS have come up with mechanics such as complex status-effect systems and a strong emphasis on positioning, in order to synergize with the core mechanic of turn-based combat. Like I said before, unity of design.

I think you are just seeing Divinity OS with the enthusiasm of the new game. That game as A LOT of issues

- Saving and loading takes forever on 32 bit machines (not sure about 64), im talking minutes. Coupled with the necessity of constant save and reload this makes it almost unplayable
- The control system is terrible and prone to mistakes. You will be costantly sending your archer into the fray while youre trying to attack someone and stuff like that. Each mistake usually ends with a reload. Theres a "tactic" camera but doesnt really make much difference.
- There are massive ground effects in every fight ... not so fun for melee
- The journal and quest system is terrible and theres no hint at all on how to progress. I mean I understand its supposed to be an old school rpg but no one likes to roam around for hours talking with the same people trying to figure out what to do.
- The in-party dialogues system is unfinished and there are only two companions, although you can recruit henchmen (who dont talk at all)


Most of these issues will be probably fixed along the way, but still they are there at launch.

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Splift написал:

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Poutsos написал:

I have 24 mgbps net and i encounter desync in 1 out of 3 attacks.

And if I remember right you play multistrike flicker builds? Not that it is a good excuse, but it is a build known to be more desync prone after all.

Yeah i know..But,oh well,what should i do,not play the build i enoy the most?plus i do get desync on my other characters,not as bad,but it still very very frequent.You know i have read the development manifesto,and a huge chunck of desync is attributed to stuns,chance to hit and evasion.On my other acount(astraph),i ve got a lv95 character,that has both unwavering stance and rsolute technic,meaning that there is no chance to hit and evasion involved,neither from me or the monsters,and of course no stuns,but still i get desynced very very frequently,so i am pretty sure that the game engine has severe issues.Anyway,since i have not payed any good money to ths game i do not feel entitled to really bitch about it,but it does annoy me greatly,and it was the main reason i chose not to buy a supporter pack.

well, TBS are notoriously more strategic than real time combat in RPGs and rpg-ish games

theres a cult european following of heroes of m&m series, as well as baldurs gate 2 combat being accepted as one of the best games in the genre because of (I wont even talk about jrpgs which are pretty much all turn based) its combat.

but yeah, I think most people play poe because of theorycrafting and large build customization choice. I feel most people, me included, consider combat meh at best.

but the thing is, poe at least does the part its supposed to do, really well. that large cusomtization is what makes me come back to the game and crave it some more.

Ive been traveling in europe for past month and since I cant really play poe (or d3 for that matter) on the go, I dusted off my vanilla torchlight 2 on my laptop, some new game ++ action.

and it being first APPG aside from poe Ive played since last year, I had lots of fun contniuing as a glass cannon embermage. lots of game is about mobility, dodging and teleporting around, 'twitch reflex' style.

the problem is, this style does get boring and monotonous after many hours. most bosses can be ran around in circles and kited, and most small mobs are also just telported around.

this is where poe shines. because GGG is well aware that its dynamic combat is basically nonexistent it put tons of effort into skill system and build enablers, which is really the core of the game as opposed to fast-paced mobile, strategic real-time

therefore I feel like in poe the slow, boring combat is a litmus test. if you can bear with it from the get-go, you wont get bored for a while. theres no point where you get tired of the 'twitch' gameplay and simply realize theres nothing to do. that point happens when you load PoE in the first lpace.

we all know desync isnt going anywhere, for it to go away a huge part of code would need to be rewritten debugged, tested and released. that aint happening.

so if you are at that point where you are bored with builds, its probably time to stop playing poe, because simply besides huge build freedom and some quirky game mods (ie races, new leagues), it doesnt much in terms of core gameplay.

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Ive been traveling in europe for past month and since I cant really play poe (or d3 for that matter) on the go, I dusted off my vanilla torchlight 2 on my laptop, some new game ++ action.

and it being first APPG aside from poe Ive played since last year, I had lots of fun contniuing as a glass cannon embermage. lots of game is about mobility, dodging and teleporting around, 'twitch reflex' style.

the problem is, this style does get boring and monotonous after many hours. most bosses can be ran around in circles and kited, and most small mobs are also just telported around.

this is where poe shines. because GGG is well aware that its dynamic combat is basically nonexistent it put tons of effort into skill system and build enablers, which is really the core of the game as opposed to fast-paced mobile, strategic real-time

therefore I feel like in poe the slow, boring combat is a litmus test. if you can bear with it from the get-go, you wont get bored for a while. theres no point where you get tired of the 'twitch' gameplay and simply realize theres nothing to do. that point happens when you load PoE in the first lpace.

we all know desync isnt going anywhere, for it to go away a huge part of code would need to be rewritten debugged, tested and released. that aint happening.

so if you are at that point where you are bored with builds, its probably time to stop playing poe, because simply besides huge build freedom and some quirky game mods (ie races, new leagues), it doesnt much in terms of core gameplay.

-theorycrafting in poe gives only the illusion of complexity.
-after the theorycrafting is done, playing the character is rarely fun because all you do is hold down rightclick to spam your gmp-coc-screen-spam abilities.
-desync is always an issue.

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ScrotieMcB написал:

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Jiero написал:

I get a range of 50-100 ms ping depending on the day, my jitter is around the 15ms, my DL speed around 8mb/sec, my upload around 700kb/sec and this in on DSL.

Ping is obviously the most relevant stat. Mine's normally 30-50 despite much slower up and down speeds. Location, location, location.

Well with me right now I have a very strong suspicion that since the death of net neutrality my ISP is screwing me over and throttling down various kinds of packets. Hulu, netflix, youtube, plex/playon, skype and all my other streaming services have taken a BIG hit in their quality while stuff like games have degraded just enough to be noticeable. I used to get 25-40 ms and now its at 50-100 since the death of net neutrality, and I have called them up to complain and of course get the run around denials and claims of repair work being done. Also it was 10mb/sec down, 1mb/sec up but since all that fast lane / slow lane speak the fcc had went down to 8mb/sec down 700kb/sec up.

If what I suspect is true then I think that I may have to just stop playing honestly because it is that painful with the current netcode as long as my ISP are throttling down my speed.

I think that the twitch part of the game should not be too hard, but the whole "make your build once you theorycraft" part of the game should be as smooth as possible. This game doesn't decide between build diversity and insane challenge sometimes...

GGG should improve the strenghts of the game until the flaws are forgivable.

It's true that the chances of this game turning out well are growing smaller and smaller every day. But when GGG will start on their next project, people will remember the desync and lack of optimisation. So they probably won't fund another kickstarter, even with a very good idea behind it. Then again, even a complete shit company like EA manages to keep fooling people to buy their product, so I don't know for sure if it will be the end of GGG.