Why I've given up hope of this game becoming great (but not quite on GGG)

I run a pierce version which is a lot cheaper than chain so there is that. Chain still worked before that though but was only a 5 link. I know LA pretty much requires bloodmagic(or torment?..)

I'm not out to prove that all skills are sustainable or the system is perfect. I'm picking on your exaggeration that all builds that don't use EB/BM just suck. Adjustments should be made but saying the whole system is simply two choices is wrong.

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allbusiness написал:

Have you actually played a Grand Strategy game before? Mine resources > Spend Resources? You realize that in most Grand Strategy games, there are multiple resources that you have to manage, ranging from your economy, military assets, and morale, blah blah blah, including other things like prestige, reputation, etc. that are all gained in different ways. You have to make strategic choices of what you want to focus on, on balance it against other things within the game. Sure, I'm pumping out tons of military units on the board, but my economy has taken a shitter, and my people are upset at me.

All of that boils down to different types of resources and different types of mining and different types of spending. And like I said its a bad comparison, try actually comparing it to a game that is even remotely in the same vein and not just taking the term "resource management" in the broadest sense possible. You may as well have said Harvest Moon.

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Path of Exile's resource management boils down to setup gems or setup passive skill tree and auto pilot hold RMB until all mobs on screen are dead.

You just described every h&s game in a nutshell. Except in every other one besides poe you don't have to even think/plan/build around resource management aside from perhaps "drink pot" in some.

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kasub написал:

I run a pierce version which is a lot cheaper than chain so there is that. Chain still worked before that though but was only a 5 link. I know LA pretty much requires bloodmagic(or torment?..)

I'm not out to prove that all skills are sustainable or the system is perfect. I'm picking on your exaggeration that all builds that don't use EB/BM just suck. Adjustments should be made but saying the whole system is simply two choices is wrong.

Uh, because they do?

You can run a physical SA build and you actually will have to use a mana pot eventually, meanwhile Wand Jr. over here is plowing through mobs with like double your DPS due to Anger/Wrath auras and has no mana issues because he's running EB + a high level clarity. Oh did I mention he has a better defense mechanic then you too because he's got a high level AA with Inner Force, and can switch on a Purity Aura instead of Haste or some other aura for ele heavy maps, while you're fucked if your resistances on gear isn't basically perfect, since you might be running 2 Auras max (one is going to probably be Grace, the other might be Hatred if you get enough reserved mana reduction). 3 is really stretching it if you have a quality reduced mana cost gem and have an Alpha Howl's Hood.


Yeah. Those non EB/BM builds sure can compete well. And we're not talking about minor differences here, I'm saying you can have like a Lionseye Glare and he can have a shit wand and he's still raping you DPS wise while still having better defense, and having better resources on top of that.


I didn't even mention a Buzzsaw builds which basically just shit all over anything you can come up with, and cost a fraction of any build you can come up with.

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Uh, because they do?

You can run a physical SA build and you actually will have to use a mana pot eventually, meanwhile Wand Jr. over here is plowing through mobs with like double your DPS due to Anger/Wrath auras and has no mana issues because he's running EB + a high level clarity. Oh did I mention he has a better defense mechanic then you too because he's got a high level AA with Inner Force, and can switch on a Purity Aura instead of Haste or some other aura for ele heavy maps, while you're fucked if your resistances on gear isn't basically perfect, since you might be running 2 Auras max (one is going to probably be Grace, the other might be Hatred if you get enough reserved mana reduction). 3 is really stretching it if you have a quality reduced mana cost gem and have an Alpha Howl's Hood.

You're really comparing builds without having any clue about how the build works. BM is not used since BM offers no real benefit. You lose DPS by losing a gemslot and don't necessarily gain an aura.

To make some things clear. No, an elemental wander won't surpass the physical crit bow build without being lowlife. They're quite different builds but a physical crit bow build can scale up way more.

As for the actual clearspeed.. well it can carry parties and is probably one of the best boss killers(that isn't lowlife) Onehitting shrine piety and courtyard bosses are two good examples. Puncture is just very powerful with it.

Did I tell you that the build is uber capable? It is. The few bow builds that I saw do uber were both physical crit SA + puncture builds that used manaleech. You do not need amazing gear for the basics to work though. I'm not talking about mirrored bows with 500+ pdps.. Just a crit bow with 250+ pdps is good. Don't blindly insult builds you have no idea about.

Edit: Ironically you mentioned buzzsaw build. It's a hilarious comparision since all a buzzsaw build does when grouping with such a character is play a support role. Equipping romira and using conduit for permanent powercharges to support the splitarrow build is actually extremely powerful. Sticking to the splitarrow character for aura support is also nice. The buzzsaw build does not do relevant DPS compared to the split arrow character.

Wand builds are typically expensive, ele buzzsaw builds don't do glorious damage. There are mana builds that keep a few % of their mana unreserved and keep that topped up with some sort of leech.DD is also easily sustainable without eb or BM with any setup. Summoners don't need eb to sustain their killspeed but usually take it just for mom.

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kasub написал:

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Uh, because they do?

You can run a physical SA build and you actually will have to use a mana pot eventually, meanwhile Wand Jr. over here is plowing through mobs with like double your DPS due to Anger/Wrath auras and has no mana issues because he's running EB + a high level clarity. Oh did I mention he has a better defense mechanic then you too because he's got a high level AA with Inner Force, and can switch on a Purity Aura instead of Haste or some other aura for ele heavy maps, while you're fucked if your resistances on gear isn't basically perfect, since you might be running 2 Auras max (one is going to probably be Grace, the other might be Hatred if you get enough reserved mana reduction). 3 is really stretching it if you have a quality reduced mana cost gem and have an Alpha Howl's Hood.

You're really comparing builds without having any clue about how the build works. BM is not used since BM offers no real benefit. You lose DPS by losing a gemslot and don't necessarily gain an aura.

To make some things clear. No, an elemental wander won't surpass the physical crit bow build without being lowlife. They're quite different builds but a physical crit bow build can scale up way more.

As for the actual clearspeed.. well it can carry parties and is probably one of the best boss killers(that isn't lowlife) Onehitting shrine piety and courtyard bosses are two good examples. Puncture is just very powerful with it.

Did I tell you that the build is uber capable? It is. The few bow builds that I saw do uber were both physical crit SA + puncture builds that used manaleech. You do not need amazing gear for the basics to work though. I'm not talking about mirrored bows with 500+ pdps.. Just a crit bow with 250+ pdps is good.

An Elemental Wander for a long time surpasses a Bow user's damage for quite sometime. It's easier to play with from the start of a ladder, and it scales exponentially way harder because you can transition later into a low life wander fairly easy.

The bow builds you're talking about are straight glass cannon builds that would not be HC viable.

If your whole argument is that wander builds can transition to CoE + shavs which blows away the physical crit character then you're missing the point.

I gave you an example of a character that does really good without your criteria of EB or BM. Nevermind the fact the CoE + shavs is just completely overpowered and should not be a basis for comparision. A life based elemental wander does not even come close to a fully built crit SA character(Especially for single target). Even with 21 wrath/anger.

That bow build can reach 280%+ life,have acro + phase acro, ondars and decent evasion. It's actually one of the better hardcore builds since you kill most things before they reach you. I know it's capable of doing some of the toughest maps that "tanky" characters can not do.

I feel like you're trying to find any reason to say you're right that EB/bm dominate all builds.

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kasub написал:

If your whole argument is that wander builds can transition to CoE + shavs which blows away the physical crit character than you're missing the point.

I gave you an example of a character that does really good without your criteria of EB or BM. Nevermind the fact the CoE + shavs is just completely overpowered and should not be a basis for comparision.

That bow build can reach 280%+ life,have acro + phase acro, ondars and decent evasion. It's actually one of the better hardcore builds since you kill most things before they reach you. I know it's capable of doing some of the toughest maps that "tanky" characters can not do.

I feel like you're trying to find any reason to say you're right that EB/bm dominate all builds.

Evasion based builds are not HC viable due to RNG. If you run across a mob pack with Increased Accuracy and they happen to have the Increased Accuracy Aura on them you're pretty much boned. Especially if it's something dumb like Titty Bitches. Stupid scenario, but in HC, you have to play for all possible scenarios. That or getting hit by EK would ruin your day, or Vaal Granite rocks, blah blah blah. And before you go spewing out random math out, I've seen plenty of Evasion based chars die at the top of the ladder in Nemesis, Invasion, HC, etc. because they thought they'd just outplay whatever they come across. But they make a minor mistake, they die. If you play a build like that which has no margin for error, it's pretty much gonna die at some point.


And no, I'm saying Wanders are straight better because they have a much smoother progression curve and will be able to farm much easier than a straight Physical DPS Bow character. Not to mention, you will have far more survivability than a bow character ever will. So even when your bow character might start to outdps the Wand Char (and it takes a pretty silly bow to do this), you're not going to have anywhere near as much survivability.


And did you say Buzzsaw does negligible damage? That's hilarious.

great read Scrotie

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Lacceh написал:

PS: Just about to start the new Divinity RPG. :P It seems to have received excellent ratings so far, my expectations are very high. Hope I won't be disappointed.
Anybody played the original Divine Divinity game, way back? I did. It was great.

ive played beyond divinity and divintiy 2, both are good, but beyond divinity was very fun, im playing D:OS now and loving it

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And did you say Buzzsaw does negligible damage? That's hilarious.

I think I know that better than anyone else :) I have a fully geared buzzsaw character and when I group with SA characters I play pure support(equip romira/take conduit/stick to them while using vaal gems). DPS is good but is negligible compared to that build.

I have 16.5k DPS which is way above most buzzsaw characters.



As for evasion not being viable.. I give up on this topic. Evasion is not random and has never been more powerful. Your example is horrible since they're completely negated by ondar's.