Feedback from a PoE player who started playing D3 again

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KarraKurri написал:

From "OMG Its new Blizard masterpiece! They are geniuses of gaming and design!" to "Its casual, shallow, childlish and boring medicore slasher that basically lacks everything thats is important (mechanics, deep, replayability, nice itemization, diablo-like atmosphere) but it have nice looking (and only looking) FMV videos' in 24 hours.

I think we can expect large player influx starting approx. 2 weeks after Reaper Of Souls launch.

I think D3 is just as 'deep' as PoE - whatever that means exactly considering in both games you'll end up using the same few number of builds per class. You can switch builds on the fly in D3 or you can level up 3 different Templar's in PoE, but the result is the same, one just took a lot longer than the other. Regarding itemization, I think D3 has done some fantastic things with it that really remind of me of the keystones from PoE. In PoE you pick a node that adds something special to your class, and in D3 you find legendries that give you interesting properties.

The people who burn through D3 and rush paragon levels will leave and come to PoE, and when they arrive they'll blow through levels and grind maps and then come to the forums to complain about how there isn't anything left to do, that the RNG sucks, and that crafting is atrocious.

I do agree with Charan though, D3's story is total shit and the death of Cain was just atrocious. PoE's story is just inexplicable.

*edit*

D3's biggest flaw was delegating drop rates around the AH. It ruined the game for me, it made it p2w. PoE has done the exact same thing except you have to go to a different web site to buy your gear. Now, of course, GGG doesn't endorse this activity, but they certainly have based drop rates around trading so that they can have an 'economy' - that place where the rich take advantage of the poor and set prices so high that the average player will never be able to participate. Which has also made me dislike PoE. When I played D2 with 2 of my RL friends we got through Hell difficulty just the three of us, trading amongst us and rolling alts to take advantage of the drops we found. We never gave a shit about the economy and we weren't effected by it, we didn't use duped items and we didn't have to learn the values of items either. It was a lot of fun.

*edit 2*

about 'ruining PoE' with all of these dirty D3 suggestions. Well, I think Blizzard did the smart thing and looked at other ARPG's and stole the best concepts they had. They took TL map system (which PoE did as well) and they added there own twist. I don't want to see PoE become D3, but I think there are a lot of things GGG could borrow from the game that would really help it out. Also, considering this game was entirely inspired by D2, I see nothing wrong in continuing to borrow from other ARPG's in an effort to improve this one.

Some interesting comments.

you say that the games are not that different because the results are the same but it is also the experience that matters.
After having experienced D3 gameplay I feel that in PoE your choices truly matter. For example at some point you find a godly weapon and you can decide to specialize in that weapon. This is a choice that really means something and I'm missing that from the D3 experience.
Also, based on the legendaries I found in D3 A1, I feel that the legendaries also matter less. They have 1 special mod while a PoE unique has a theme.

I do agree with both the EDIT remarks..

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Wittgenstein написал:

I think D3 is just as 'deep' as PoE - whatever that means exactly considering in both games you'll end up using the same few number of builds per class. You can switch builds on the fly in D3 or you can level up 3 different Templar's in PoE, but the result is the same, one just took a lot longer than the other. Regarding itemization, I think D3 has done some fantastic things with it that really remind of me of the keystones from PoE. In PoE you pick a node that adds something special to your class, and in D3 you find legendries that give you interesting properties.

The people who burn through D3 and rush paragon levels will leave and come to PoE, and when they arrive they'll blow through levels and grind maps and then come to the forums to complain about how there isn't anything left to do, that the RNG sucks, and that crafting is atrocious.

I disagree with every word but i will dont waste energy for another post about D3. Its not worth it. Sugarcoated shit is still shit. TBH D3 RoS/2.0 is even worse than vanilla and will bleed players even faster (die to EXTREME instant gratification and casual design). Also...adding characteer farting procs is not fixing the itemization in HnS game - mechanicalle is now even less complex and more boring than before (die to primary/secondary stats and 100% 'wow-like' linear progression design/power creep in RoS).

And i think Blizzard is expecting this. Every little change and ever ypixal in nowadays D3 just screams "play for 2 weeks (month for hardcores and ppl with really bad taste) and go buy WoW subcription plox'

True Story. Blizzard is dead m8 (for me at least). Last good game they made that dont insult my intelligence in various ways was WoW + Burning Crusade. Good Times :) A

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KarraKurri написал:

True Story. Blizzard is dead m8 (for me at least). Last good game they made that dont insult my intelligence in various ways was WoW + Burning Crusade. Good Times :) A

I think the blizzard we want and expect is dead. I miss the days of WC2, D2 and SC (even though I didn't play much SC). But, I'm enjoying hearthstone, although I don't see myself glued to it for a long time as there's very little variety outside of arena. D3 is "fun" and if it didn't have the diablo name it would be a solid stand alone game with a more casual fanbase, I think most of us hate it because it's in D2's shadow and doesn't do it justice whatsoever. It also seems from Kripp's streaming of HotS that moba fans will probably enjoy that as well (again, seems like a more casual version though).

The writing is on the wall though, blizzard has gone from a HC player haven to mass market/appeal gaming company. They have shareholders and want to make money, not keep people entertained for 10 years off $60 anymore. It's a shame but also not surprising.

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Moosifer написал:

So we are left with a fork in the road. Either you go with D2's side that involved duped gear being everywhere or you go with the side that people wanted a challenge. So we have D3 which is the easy progression, get good gear, progress easily through the game without issues game. We also get POE, the unforgiving, challenging game where RNG doesn't care if you play 1 hour or 1000 hours you might get good shit you might not. People enjoy both, why make one into the other?

Here's honestly what I don't get. People enjoy both games, why does one have to be like the other? There are lessons each can learn from each other, tbh I thought gameplay in D3 was smoother than in POE. But POE is built off it's items and the quest for them. There's almost no reason to play merciless and beyond unless you're hunting items or in a race. There's no finish line in POE like there is in D3.

I just don't get why people want to ruin POE with D3 principles, just go play D3. They are built with completely different objectives in mind. POE wants people to stick around, get attached to their items, spend money to make them look better. D3 wants you to spend $60 and enjoy the experience enough that the next expansion they release you buy as well. How long you play doesn't matter as long as you remember thinking you enjoyed the game when they release another.

Neither system is bad but when POE is built on this player attachment to items having a system like D3 has will literally ruin the game.

So honestly, why can't both games exist? At this point it's unfair to compare them and the shared playerbase isn't as much as it was when D3 was first released.

1) Gating everything behind RNG is extremely bad design, and only demonstrates that you are not confident that your game as a whole doesn't match-up versus other games. And in truth, various gameplay systems of Path of Exile does not match up against ARPG games. The only thing it has going for it is the illusion of choice.

2) If you want people to stick around you get them to reroll characters, not make them play a character till their eyes bleed in order to become a destructive force, which is essentially most people's goal in an ARPG.

3)Having a system like D3 wouldn't ruin the game if people were encouraged to reroll by actually finding items on a regular basis. This is the most unsound logic that I have ever seen by people who don't want increased loot drops.

4) I hate when people say Path of Exile is challenging. Path of Exile is bullshit. It's difficult, not challenging. There's a massive difference.


It is like Path of Exile has an AH, and balances drops around said AH. It doesn't make any sense at all. No one is saying make every white mob a loot exploding chest, but you have a serious issue when not very many people are rerolling even in standard let alone any of the temporary leagues.

There's a world of difference between D3's no build, constant gear evolution model and PoE's all grind, trade for everything model.

You can have all the depth of PoE's model without necessarily gating everything beyond RNG. There's nothing hardcore about a randomizer, and it doesn't promote replayability in the slightest. There have been many topics, discussing this ad nauseum, on how to alleviate the RNG-gate issue, and most of them have never been tried despite how sound.

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Moosifer написал:

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KarraKurri написал:

True Story. Blizzard is dead m8 (for me at least). Last good game they made that dont insult my intelligence in various ways was WoW + Burning Crusade. Good Times :) A

I think the blizzard we want and expect is dead. I miss the days of WC2, D2 and SC (even though I didn't play much SC). But, I'm enjoying hearthstone, although I don't see myself glued to it for a long time as there's very little variety outside of arena. D3 is "fun" and if it didn't have the diablo name it would be a solid stand alone game with a more casual fanbase, I think most of us hate it because it's in D2's shadow and doesn't do it justice whatsoever. It also seems from Kripp's streaming of HotS that moba fans will probably enjoy that as well (again, seems like a more casual version though).

The writing is on the wall though, blizzard has gone from a HC player haven to mass market/appeal gaming company. They have shareholders and want to make money, not keep people entertained for 10 years off $60 anymore. It's a shame but also not surprising.

The part of the corporation (blizzard north) that made those games that you stated as liking actually IS dead (closed down) and all the members that were employed there either were fired or quit. Half went on to that fiasco called hellgate london that killed two other companies with how much of a steaming pile of crap it was and the other half (the people that caused those games you loved to be decent in the first place) went on to join runic games and make torchlight.


Activision bought blizzard, starved it, skinned it and is now wearing its skin as a human suit just like in the silence of the lambs.


Blizzard North puts the lotion on it's skin or else it gets the hose again.....




edit - guess I'm saying is that none of us ever liked blizzard as a whole, we liked blizzard north... a division of blizzard that was shut down years ago.

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allbusiness написал:

1) Gating everything behind RNG is extremely bad design, and only demonstrates that you are not confident that your game as a whole doesn't match-up versus other games. And in truth, various gameplay systems of Path of Exile does not match up against ARPG games. The only thing it has going for it is the illusion of choice.

It's bad designed to you. I, and many people have never had an issue with it. Live and die by RNG, can't have the excitement without disappointment. You don't have to enjoy it and there are many options for you to play if you don't, in fact gaming in general seems to be going this direction and it bores me. I like underdogs winning, I like the hail mary pass working, it's why I loved poker and was never interested in shit like MOBAs.

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2) If you want people to stick around you get them to reroll characters, not make them play a character till their eyes bleed in order to become a destructive force, which is essentially most people's goal in an ARPG.

People do reroll, go look at the class forums, many different builds, people asking for advice on their builds and new attempts at old favorites.

The last sentence is confusing, they shouldn't play one character but that's their goal? WTF? I feel POE does both well as I reroll often and I've stuck to a few builds for months at a time.

"

3)Having a system like D3 wouldn't ruin the game if people were encouraged to reroll by actually finding items on a regular basis. This is the most unsound logic that I have ever seen by people who don't want increased loot drops.

D3 system has a short shelf life. Again, if you enjoy it, go play it. No reason POE has to copy that aspect as I've explained a couple times now, different objectives for each game, makes little sense to use one philosophy for the other game.

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4) I hate when people say Path of Exile is challenging. Path of Exile is bullshit. It's difficult, not challenging. There's a massive difference.

You keep looking at everything very shallow. Are MOBAs challenging in within themselves? No, they are challenging because of player competition. If you aren't racing the game isn't challenging. There's also content that is purposely overturned, if you take a well built build in good gear of course it's easy but if you challenge yourself to take off builds, especially in an unforgiving situation like HC, the game is challenging.

You see it black and white and really the game is as challenging as you make it unlike many games where you has to go out of your way to gimp yourself to feel the same difficulty.

"

It is like Path of Exile has an AH, and balances drops around said AH. It doesn't make any sense at all. No one is saying make every white mob a loot exploding chest, but you have a serious issue when not very many people are rerolling even in standard let alone any of the temporary leagues.

I'm a standard player, people reroll all the time. Stop making shit up and pigeonholing other things to support your argument. You don't enjoy the game, we get it, you've said your peace now move on. I don't get why you guys stick around. You have a CB tag yet, what almost 2 years later, you're here complaining? I don't understand you guys, seriously.

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Moosifer написал:

Скрытый текст

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allbusiness написал:

1) Gating everything behind RNG is extremely bad design, and only demonstrates that you are not confident that your game as a whole doesn't match-up versus other games. And in truth, various gameplay systems of Path of Exile does not match up against ARPG games. The only thing it has going for it is the illusion of choice.

It's bad designed to you. I, and many people have never had an issue with it. Live and die by RNG, can't have the excitement without disappointment. You don't have to enjoy it and there are many options for you to play if you don't, in fact gaming in general seems to be going this direction and it bores me. I like underdogs winning, I like the hail mary pass working, it's why I loved poker and was never interested in shit like MOBAs.

"

2) If you want people to stick around you get them to reroll characters, not make them play a character till their eyes bleed in order to become a destructive force, which is essentially most people's goal in an ARPG.

People do reroll, go look at the class forums, many different builds, people asking for advice on their builds and new attempts at old favorites.

The last sentence is confusing, they shouldn't play one character but that's their goal? WTF? I feel POE does both well as I reroll often and I've stuck to a few builds for months at a time.

"

3)Having a system like D3 wouldn't ruin the game if people were encouraged to reroll by actually finding items on a regular basis. This is the most unsound logic that I have ever seen by people who don't want increased loot drops.

D3 system has a short shelf life. Again, if you enjoy it, go play it. No reason POE has to copy that aspect as I've explained a couple times now, different objectives for each game, makes little sense to use one philosophy for the other game.

"

4) I hate when people say Path of Exile is challenging. Path of Exile is bullshit. It's difficult, not challenging. There's a massive difference.

You keep looking at everything very shallow. Are MOBAs challenging in within themselves? No, they are challenging because of player competition. If you aren't racing the game isn't challenging. There's also content that is purposely overturned, if you take a well built build in good gear of course it's easy but if you challenge yourself to take off builds, especially in an unforgiving situation like HC, the game is challenging.

You see it black and white and really the game is as challenging as you make it unlike many games where you has to go out of your way to gimp yourself to feel the same difficulty.

"

It is like Path of Exile has an AH, and balances drops around said AH. It doesn't make any sense at all. No one is saying make every white mob a loot exploding chest, but you have a serious issue when not very many people are rerolling even in standard let alone any of the temporary leagues.

I'm a standard player, people reroll all the time. Stop making shit up and pigeonholing other things to support your argument. You don't enjoy the game, we get it, you've said your peace now move on. I don't get why you guys stick around. You have a CB tag yet, what almost 2 years later, you're here complaining? I don't understand you guys, seriously.

TBH I am suprised that he didn't include anything saying that all feedback is rubbish unless you have a level 80 in Invasion, like he does on other threads. Pretty much all of his posts these days are 'everything is terrible' 'shut up your logic doesn't matter cause you have no experience' 'sorry I know more than you despite clearly being less intelligent'

Reminds me a lot of IceM tbh

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Real_Wolf написал:

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Moosifer написал:

Скрытый текст

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allbusiness написал:

1) Gating everything behind RNG is extremely bad design, and only demonstrates that you are not confident that your game as a whole doesn't match-up versus other games. And in truth, various gameplay systems of Path of Exile does not match up against ARPG games. The only thing it has going for it is the illusion of choice.

It's bad designed to you. I, and many people have never had an issue with it. Live and die by RNG, can't have the excitement without disappointment. You don't have to enjoy it and there are many options for you to play if you don't, in fact gaming in general seems to be going this direction and it bores me. I like underdogs winning, I like the hail mary pass working, it's why I loved poker and was never interested in shit like MOBAs.

"

2) If you want people to stick around you get them to reroll characters, not make them play a character till their eyes bleed in order to become a destructive force, which is essentially most people's goal in an ARPG.

People do reroll, go look at the class forums, many different builds, people asking for advice on their builds and new attempts at old favorites.

The last sentence is confusing, they shouldn't play one character but that's their goal? WTF? I feel POE does both well as I reroll often and I've stuck to a few builds for months at a time.

"

3)Having a system like D3 wouldn't ruin the game if people were encouraged to reroll by actually finding items on a regular basis. This is the most unsound logic that I have ever seen by people who don't want increased loot drops.

D3 system has a short shelf life. Again, if you enjoy it, go play it. No reason POE has to copy that aspect as I've explained a couple times now, different objectives for each game, makes little sense to use one philosophy for the other game.

"

4) I hate when people say Path of Exile is challenging. Path of Exile is bullshit. It's difficult, not challenging. There's a massive difference.

You keep looking at everything very shallow. Are MOBAs challenging in within themselves? No, they are challenging because of player competition. If you aren't racing the game isn't challenging. There's also content that is purposely overturned, if you take a well built build in good gear of course it's easy but if you challenge yourself to take off builds, especially in an unforgiving situation like HC, the game is challenging.

You see it black and white and really the game is as challenging as you make it unlike many games where you has to go out of your way to gimp yourself to feel the same difficulty.

"

It is like Path of Exile has an AH, and balances drops around said AH. It doesn't make any sense at all. No one is saying make every white mob a loot exploding chest, but you have a serious issue when not very many people are rerolling even in standard let alone any of the temporary leagues.

I'm a standard player, people reroll all the time. Stop making shit up and pigeonholing other things to support your argument. You don't enjoy the game, we get it, you've said your peace now move on. I don't get why you guys stick around. You have a CB tag yet, what almost 2 years later, you're here complaining? I don't understand you guys, seriously.

TBH I am suprised that he didn't include anything saying that all feedback is rubbish unless you have a level 80 in Invasion, like he does on other threads. Pretty much all of his posts these days are 'everything is terrible' 'shut up your logic doesn't matter cause you have no experience' 'sorry I know more than you despite clearly being less intelligent'

Reminds me a lot of IceM tbh

Thanks for the shout out, maybe he just speaks his actual feelings on the subject at the time like I do, Unlike most people here, I post My honest opinions after putting actual play time in to back it up.


Real_wolf It dosent matter what the hell the topic is, you will be here defending the game, no matter if it maps, even tho at that time u didnt have any characters that could even run maps.


Dosent matter real wolf and other white knights will defend it. Fruz has been posting alot while u have not yet U sound like the same person and it might as well be.

Seriously The core group here running feedback and the rest of the forum need to realize that you are only hurting the game with bashing every complaint and sweeping it under the rug.

It has gotten better, not because you guys got better, but because you cant deny it any longer against the hordes of players that see it as it is.