is The Shaper a fair fight? discussion

from videos it looks like a normal boss fight, dodge thid dodge that. Nothing extraordinary.

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johnKeys написал:

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johnKeys написал:

but is "hard" necessarily equal to "bullet hell of one-shots" ?

non-argument, the only part that is supposed to be anywhere close to bullet-hell is avoidable as long as you protect zana and stay in bubble.

really?
watch the 3rd stage where there's two of them, blasting you from multiple sides while a bunch of explosive "vortex orbs" chase you around.
it goes full Ikaruga at that point.

in the first two stages... well he's not Malachai in the sense he isn't filling the entire screen with crap from start to eye-twitching finish, but everything he does is either a one-shot or a near-one-shot to a majority of characters at that level, so yeah...

@acme_myst, the combination in that video of Vaal Pact and something which hits a billion times per second - is broken as fuck. "god mode" level of broken.
but I'm not the one to tell you "don't use this". you can "cheese" any fight you want.
I surely have in the relatively-recent past. off-screening Shock And Horror / Palace Dominus and all that. not proud of it, but winning is everything right?

I AM however the one to ask of GGG, not to balance the freakin fight assuming the player uses broken mechanics.

two entirely different things.

I watched it, the vortex orbs dont do any damage, only the vortex does, and they dont explode instantly, for the rest, It seems like you'll have to pay close attention to both the original and the "shadow".
Its definitely a more busy phase, but its nowhere near Ikaruga levels. hell, I own it and it maybe its just that have been years since I played it/or any other bullet-hells properly due to decaying eyesight, but I dont see anything that I would call harder than the first level, or even the most basic of SHMUP bosses for that matter.

I do agree though that it seems like it wont be a fight that everybody can do. and I have no problem with that. I dont think the only ones capable of doing it will be just BV, it just will take longer for others as one will have to be more careful.

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Faendris написал:

My suggestion is to try the shaper encounter first, before complaining.

People keep pointing this out to OP but he ignores it.

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johnKeys написал:

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johnKeys написал:

but is "hard" necessarily equal to "bullet hell of one-shots" ?

non-argument, the only part that is supposed to be anywhere close to bullet-hell is avoidable as long as you protect zana and stay in bubble.

really?
watch the 3rd stage where there's two of them, blasting you from multiple sides while a bunch of explosive "vortex orbs" chase you around.
it goes full Ikaruga at that point.

Say hello to Bullet Hell King:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUqeQxEQYYU

Well, for some player, if they can't just stay in one spot and dps boss untill he dies, its not "fair fight".

I remember people posting how impossible atziri was, all the hype. Is this build atziri viable? Omg how cna u do this in hardcore it instagibbed my endgame char who can beat shipyards and shrines, omg omg.

So a year or more after it was added I actually bothered to try it out, boss fights not rly a big hype for me. Its a complete joke, every serious build Ive played in the past 3 years is atziri viable, its easy. In all the times I tried it Ive died once and it was totally my fault.

I remember watching videos of people wearing full mirrored gear/legacy kaoms/all the business getting shit on by trash mobs before they even got to the vaal bosses in the uber version. Impossibly hard content. And then I remember 6 months later watching videos of people just standing afk in uber atziris room for like 20 minutes, just standing there getting pounded by her and she is completely incapable of killing them.

Ill post an opinion on shaper if and when I ever play it. If it isnt brutally hard Im going to be disappointed, the only reason it even exists is to be the ultimate test, the thing that stretches and stresses anything and everything that is possible for a char to be.

As someone who now farms the Shaper, I can honestly say the fight is highly mechanical just like uber Atziri. Some builds do better than others. I use vortex and have to stay pretty much in melee range all the time, which makes it challenging especially by the end of the fight. We are roughly one week into the expansion and I think the complaints people have are over exaggerated.

Uber Atziri is in a level 80 map, and was considered end-game at the time. Since then we have had serious buffs (ascendancy classes, new items, etc) and t16 maps. The Shaper SHOULD be harder than uber-atziri and having many 1-shot mechanics is perfectly in line with how challenging it should be. To be completely honest, I found the fight rather easy compared to my first experience with Uber Atziri.

I would love to see an Uber-shaper - with absolutely ludacris shit flying everywhere - or perhaps even several of the clones. That would be something to complain about.

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Aynix написал:

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johnKeys написал:

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non-argument, the only part that is supposed to be anywhere close to bullet-hell is avoidable as long as you protect zana and stay in bubble.

really?
watch the 3rd stage where there's two of them, blasting you from multiple sides while a bunch of explosive "vortex orbs" chase you around.
it goes full Ikaruga at that point.

Say hello to Bullet Hell King:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUqeQxEQYYU

Well, for some player, if they can't just stay in one spot and dps boss untill he dies, its not "fair fight".

Praise Touhou. Im pretty sure there must be some even harder stuff out there, but you cant beat touhou in popularity. Ikaruga I found that was a game that wasnt the hardest in bullet placement, but definitely fucked up instincts of SHMUP players due to the color swap thing. (Im used to avoiding bullets, but when I have to change colours and hit them instead then you are turning my world upside down)

EDIT: damn quotes sometimes fucking up, I swear....

I'm pretty sure we will have it on farm soon, just need some time to get used to mechanics.

blade vortex
ES
vaal discipline

3 broken things into 1!

i contribute with a failed attemtp 10 min ago :P . near 3rd phase. atm can do every boss except these one :P

the 2 only thing i really hate is that vortex stay until you finish the fight and the teleport radius. is you don't have a fast char or whirling blades bye bye( 1 shot me with 12500 es, don't test the damage with some type of flask or vaal discipline in the moment he teleported). anyway. the fight was pretty fun and finally ggg added a boss that don't broke my videocard :P