poe is still the most p2w game ive ever played

it's not very unlikely. Let's say someone is all into arpgs and doesn't really care much about other genres, or simply takes them as small distractions rather than a main game/genre.
Thing is PoE is still pretty much the best arpg on the market with barely any competition.
Like yea the other arpgs do good, d3 and so on aren't bad but they simply lack the variety in gameplay in many different ways. and it's the same issue with all the other arpgs on the market. they do good in some ways but don't perform overall in a all in all package.
So it's very likely that they treat PoE as their main game and spend more money into it rather than a game they don't play much at all.

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You are saying this isn't far fetched, and entirely concieveable, that there are a decent amount of gamers out there, that only play PoE, and consequently only find value in PoE related items. In addition you are also willing to say some of those people perhaps might play other F2P games, but won't pay anything towards them, because apparently their time is less valuable than the value PoE stash tabs or MTX offer? (in terms of moneitization)

I mean that's how it is for me. Stash tabs are way more tempting than P2W or cosmetic features in other F2P games.

lol

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VolcanoElixir написал:

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You are saying this isn't far fetched, and entirely concieveable, that there are a decent amount of gamers out there, that only play PoE, and consequently only find value in PoE related items. In addition you are also willing to say some of those people perhaps might play other F2P games, but won't pay anything towards them, because apparently their time is less valuable than the value PoE stash tabs or MTX offer? (in terms of moneitization)

I mean that's how it is for me. Stash tabs are way more tempting than P2W or cosmetic features in other F2P games.

Sure thats totally reasonable.... BUT, Have you also never purchased a full AAA game or P2P game because tabs or MTX in PoE hold more value? I mean cmon I feel like this is sorta trolling LOL

Edit: haha this forum is wildin', I get it's the PoE boards but wow

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Sure thats totally reasonable.... BUT, Have you also never purchased a full AAA game or P2P game because tabs or MTX in PoE hold more value? I mean cmon I feel like this is sorta trolling LOL

I didn't see anyone say that buying stash tabs means not buying a AAA game, it looked more like they were saying that it isn't uncommon for people to buy enough stash tabs that they basically paid for PoE like they would have paid for a AAA game.

Well if you enjoy the game, you could buy a supporter pack to support the development, nothing is truly free. Then you have all you need to buy some premium tabs.

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VolcanoElixir написал:

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Sure thats totally reasonable.... BUT, Have you also never purchased a full AAA game or P2P game because tabs or MTX in PoE hold more value? I mean cmon I feel like this is sorta trolling LOL

I didn't see anyone say that buying stash tabs means not buying a AAA game, it looked more like they were saying that it isn't uncommon for people to buy enough stash tabs that they basically paid for PoE like they would have paid for a AAA game.

Or pay for another game and say What the F*** are stash tabs? We don't have that nonsense here.

I've played PoE with one account with the four default stash tabs for about 10+ years. 0$ spent in fact. Not because I'm poor or don't appreciate the game GGG has made enough for me to support it, just for personal reasons I will not go into. I have all achievements with the exception of defeating Maven, which I have never tried because I am too lazy to practice the memory game and learn the mechanics beforehand, though I'm fairly confident I could have done it on my meta poison Seismic trap Sabo from a couple of leagues back. I usually get 12 or 24 challenges each league, I would consider myself a fairly casual player. I play SSF though I used to play trade, stopped because trading is awful in this game enough as it is, imagine having to trade via the forum. I need roughly 10+ mule characters per league. Standard is unplayable. I just wanted to give my take because I thought some might want to know, from the perspective of one like me...

Is PoE pay to win? Well, it's pay for an advantage. That advantage, which surprisingly no one has brought up yet, is time. It takes a lot of time to manage your stash with only four tabs, a lot of time spent moving items around to and from mule characters, a lot of time condensing currencies from one to another at vendors and wasting currency on needless crafting just to make space... A lot of time that could be better spent actually playing the game, gaining currency, pushing content, etc.

The big question for me is, should GGG care? You would assume not since anyone NOT spending money is NOT their customer. But if they want to keep up the selling point of "Free to play, not pay to win", they may want to consider doing something, and soon. The amount of default stash space is definitely inadequate in 2023 and at this rate, sad to say, may make the game near unplayable for me in the future.

In a perfect world I think GGG would:
a.) Give players a single premium stash tab for trading upon defeating act 10 Kitava on their account. I think even paying players would agree on this.
and b.) Something I've never seen pitched before: Create a new league-bound, temporary league only stash tab, no different than the defaults, that players can claim manually while logged in once per... I don't know, week/few days? Premium/convenience tabs as well as the normal tabs for permanent leagues would remain paid. I honestly don't think this would make the convenience tabs any less appealing... Have you ever sorted maps/currency without those tabs?

Sadly, I seriously doubt either is going to happen. But it would be a great way to get people talking about PoE 2, and a big hype announcement at Exile Con, I think.

Playing PoE is not a requirement to life , if you feel like the game is pay to win

and doesn't cater to you personally as much as other games you can actually go ahead

and play something else .

And don't worry we got whales on top of whales around here , 20% of PoE's audience

speaks sonar - we good , now go .

I would agree that stashtabs are a form of P2W if you interpret it very loosely but to say it is worse than other titles is just not realistic.

1. Op argues that other titles are not as P2W because with enough time and effort F2P can achieve the same

2. OP continues to disprove his own point by stating blatantly that the gear he has achieved in those games is less than P2W players.

3. Op states that spending is mandatory to compete in POE and reach the same level of gearing as those with stash tabs. This isn't true.

Is there an advantage? Yes. Is it unsurmountable given enough time and effort? Absolutely not.

As an example : I would estimate that my current net POE worth this league is maybe 250 div. 95% of that value and the items I sold for it I could fit in to 1 single tab and easily sell via TFT.

I do consider the stash tabs an advantage that you can buy but it is far better than the titles OP mentioned