poe is still the most p2w game ive ever played

How is this dumb thread still alive?

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drey2k написал:

How is this dumb thread still alive?

Through the contributions of viewers like you! <3

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yamface написал:

correct. people do ubers in ssf. after buying stash tabs lmao

last i checked $30 > $0

So what? They do not trade so your whole rant about "endgame trading" is pointless.

And yes 30 is more than 0 but calling that "most p2w" is silly. Since its 1 time payment and you keep it forever consider it as price of the game if you want.

PoE is Pay for Convenience not to win.

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de99ial написал:

PoE is Pay for Convenience not to win.

i used to play without stash tabs and i can say with certainty that they are p2w you can call them convenience but all that convenience becomes p2w if the experience without them is so terrible

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kuciol написал:

You are wrong simply because poeple do ubers on SSF.

This is weakest argument in the whole thread i will present it by using that logic in other games, so if there is new 1000 dollar gun introduced in CSgo mtx store that does double dps of any f2p guns and does not have to be paid for ingame u just spawn with it every match, you buy it and lose to f2p player because he was much better for example tournament pro the game is suddenly not p2w?
Dude is doing half your damage, you lost anyway so there was no advantage paid for?

That is literally not how people define what is and is not p2w. And Killing ubers is not even objective winning condition in poe anyway. For example for me it is having all gear pieces mirror-worthy. Because rpg is all about that gear for me and numbers going up. Some builds can phase thru uber boss on low budgets, while others are great map clearers, most people preffer to be good at maps.

Other comparison would be you buying the gun in bot-mode, sure you decided to not compete with others by playing solo mode but the p2w weapon still exists for everyone else and even gives you easier time against bots.
You are basically closing your eyes and hoping for the problem to disappear world wide. But ignoring p2w elements is not the same thing as them not existing.


Sure you can kill players in game where good guns cost 500$ for advantage without buying one yourself, does not make it less p2w, they still had easier time playing.

Sure i can kill uber on ssf after long time, or 10 times quicker in trade league with my trade tabs and 100x the dps.

p2w is about advantage, not literal win screen appearing instantly on your screen.
No p2w game that i know of is like "send 5 dollar, we send win screen" so losing is also not proof of no p2w. It is all about advantage.
MTX which improves visual clarity?=advantage
Stash tabs, for chaos recipes and trading?=advantage
MTX which improves your FPS or prevents crashing?=advantage

Some skills in this game are famous for crashing computers with the right or wrong mtx used. People that tried 5way carry runs know that well. We are 1mtx away from the current performance issues widely reported in bug-forum and technical issue forum being fixed :^D

so tl;dr
>Ubers are not universally important, 99% community does not even try to do them so it is hardly the "objective win condition" like u try to paint it to be.
>Most people play in trade league, you closing your eyes does not make the advantage go away
>winning or losing is not even condition to meet for something to be or not be p2w because sure best FPS player in the world will beat you even with 50% worse gun. Hell, they could probably have 5% of your dps and still win. Does not make the p2w guns any less p2w.

Going by that standard there is no game im the world that is not p2w. B2P games are even more since you must pay to even try to win.

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CAKE написал:

f

bro i stopped reading when you started going on about p2w guns in other games when you buy those p2w guns you immediately become stronger but if you have many stash tabs you still gotta work for that currency the stash tabs just makes it easier which can be considered p2w which i do

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yamface написал:

before people tell me ive never played a real p2w game before: i played both lost ark and genshin. its true that in both of these games, if you pay money, you get to shortcut your way to a much larger increase in character power. but none of things you buy in these games are objectively unobtainable from playing f2p and with reasonable time investment, your characters can be very close in strength compared to the whales.

to name some examples of myself, a whale in lost ark will have max item level and full level 10 gems, my character is about 20 levels max item level, and she also has a few key level 10 gems. despite what it looks, the difference in power is actually very minimal, so much so that there is little pressure to make players open their wallets

genshin is a bit of a tougher one to f2p. but even still, i got myself a c2 raiden shogun and its bis weapon + nahida. for what its worth, this setup is much weaker than a whale's team, but its counteracted by the fact that the hardest content in the game can be obliterated even with my f2p party. the game was designed so that any waifu you want to play can steamroll everything.

for these games, ive put in $0. in poe, ive had to put in a few hundred dollars. now to be fair, i couldve done away with maybe $20-$50 worth of stash tabs but poe is the only game ive played where it is advertised as f2p but in a practical sense, you will need to pay money just to be remotely relevant in endgame trading

for the people saying you can make a million mules: the personal discomfort of using only the default tabs is only half the reason i had to pay money. the other half is that every other buyer that i told to wait while i log over to a mule.. simply left and found another seller. the personal discomfort may be subjective even if 99.999% of players agree with the sentiment, but the buyers ditching you because they don't want to wait is an objective minus

its a bit ironic that the one game that flaunts being "not pay to win" (as advertised in the poe website).. is more p2w than many major p2w titles themselves

You can still do it $0.0 with mule accounts all bonded together by a guild. Then, if you do feel that hundreds upon hundreds (if not thousands) of hours worth of entertainment are worth your hard earn money drop a first blood pack. Buy guild tabs. Now you have many mules connected together with a guild. All mules have 4 fee tabs. Very reminiscent of D2. Problem solved?

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CAPSLOCK_ON написал:

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CAKE написал:

f

bro i stopped reading when you started going on about p2w guns in other games when you buy those p2w guns you immediately become stronger but if you have many stash tabs you still gotta work for that currency the stash tabs just makes it easier which can be considered p2w which i do

That is nice, but if you actually read it and tried to understand it you'd know that it is perfect way to debunk that argument on more clearly visible case.
I detach it from poe to remove the emotional attachment involved.

You actually agree with me in your comment here, i say that to literally WIN is not the p2w condition, advantage is. as you say here "guns you immediately become stronger" you do not say "you immediately win"


and the immediate part is not important either, imagine p2w buff that improves your dps by 0.01% per second you'd feel the effect like 500seconds later.
or exp potion that makes you level twice as fast, you'd reach the level like 3 hours later.

both cases are still:advantage. the speed at which you feel advantage is not important.

to the "you still put effort in part" we can go back to gun example, you still gotta hit the enemy=be slightly skilled for the gun to provide u the advantage, if u never shoot u never get advantage.
it is not suddenly not p2w because you are bad at games