poe is still the most p2w game ive ever played

I think that is true but, for me, the main problem is that PoE is a giant casino focused in make addicts.

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Impiousbe написал:

1. Op argues that other titles are not as P2W because with enough time and effort F2P can achieve the same

2. OP continues to disprove his own point by stating blatantly that the gear he has achieved in those games is less than P2W players.

actually, i said f2p can achieve very close strength to p2w in other games. technically speaking, i do have the gold in lost ark to match p2w gear but again i choose not to because there is just enough things in these games that makes these differences in strength meaningless

what i was saying was the stash tabs give a larger and more meaningful advantage than anything lost ark or genshin offers. the 250 divines you farmed was with stash tabs, and that isnt even enough to explore some of the more interesting builds out there. not to mention you likely would not have farmed that much currency with slower default tabs. youre saying you can, but theres a reason why youre using them and think theyre an advantage

It's definitely pay to win, but not in the way most people are thinking here.

You pay your in-game currency to acquire all the gear that you need to win the game.

The traditional style of ARPG where you acquire the means to craft powerful gear, or heaven forbid, actually find something by killing a monster, is really a distant memory in this game. Or rather, an unfulfilled dream that never was.

GGG have created a brilliant slot machine simulator, but for all the flashing lights, the bells and whistles, it is still a pale shadow of what it could have been.

Agree, I don't like stash tabs as a concept. Which is why I don't have any, which is also why I can't list items for trade.

Maybe it isn't p2w but it is pay or lose out on key features of the game.

What OP is saying is true and there is no reason to deny that.

The game is free to try out and have some fun(you could see that as a fre trial). If you want to engage with trading or hoard tons of currency stash tabs are practically mandatory.

People like to fight over the definition of p2w, but its clear that you cant even spam maps without a couple stash tabs to not make your experience miserable.

All that being said, its fine that poe do that. Common lets be honest here, if you have like 300 hours of gameplay on a game you should support the developers if you can. Its not like you insta win at poe by just buying stashs anyway. It is fair.

I think the best way to define p2w is if you have to pay to progress your goals (win). People's goals may vary, so whether a game is p2w will also vary. I think players goals in PoE are mostly divided into a few main goals:

1) Finish the campaign. Buying stash tabs does not progress your goal of completing the campaign, so it's not p2w for players who's only goal is to complete campaign (probably the goal of more people that you think!).

2) Complete one or more very powerful builds in a league trade environment. Buying stash tabs definitely progresses this goal so it IS p2w for these players. You can do painful muling crap, but in a league trade environment, time is currency, currency is gear, and gear is power / progress to your goal.

3) Defeat some level of end game in a league SSF environment. Atlas completion, pinnacles, ubers, etc. I would argue this is not p2w. Buying tabs does not progress your goal here. The existing stash space (and maybe 1 mule) should be plenty for items and the crafting to complete all the way to ubers.

4) Other minority goals. Some people just want to look cool (p2w). Some people may want to beat pinnacles on minimal gear (not p2w). Some people just want to get as much run speed as they can (p2w in a trade environment). Some people just want to chat in global (not p2w). Some people want to amass monstrous level of power on multiple builds in standard (p2w in both trade and SSF).


Since a large number of players fit into category #2, a large number of players are therefore paying to win. At least with PoE though the value of additional stash tabs drops off a cliff once you've spent around $80 so I see it as more of a retail stacker price.

As someone with only the 4 base tabs. I can't use the trade website to list items.

I am tft banned, thank God.

This means my best way of converting orbs is bulk selling which works.

This is a very real part of p2w in por. But at least I dying have to worry about trade spam.

OP is correct, i used to have only 30 chaos orbs per league, now after buying stash tabs i drown in tier items, get every league

Best thing about p2w in this game is that 200dollars is enough, in genshin you gotta spend 150000$ for same level of p2w.

and poe is there for 13 years, lots of content and update, mtx go to poe2(at least that is what they claim) so to p2w in poe is totally worth it. and anyone that plans to play for over 3 months should get starter pack n buy tabs in discount especially: map,currency,premium conversion(so u can trade)

You are wrong simply because poeple do ubers on SSF. On top of it it doesnt take that much time, after a week there are plenty of players that did them. Even if they played 200h within that week its irrelevant, you have 3 months.

Also do you even know how much bs is your statement? The most p2w game where 30$ lets you get everything you will ever need? For 300 points you can currently buy: 1 currency tab, 1 map tab, 1 premium tab, 1 essence tab and 3 normal tabs. For any regular player that would be plenty.

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kuciol написал:

You are wrong simply because poeple do ubers on SSF. On top of it it doesnt take that much time, after a week there are plenty of players that did them. Even if they played 200h within that week its irrelevant, you have 3 months.

correct. people do ubers in ssf. after buying stash tabs lmao

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kuciol написал:

Also do you even know how much bs is your statement? The most p2w game where 30$ lets you get everything you will ever need? For 300 points you can currently buy: 1 currency tab, 1 map tab, 1 premium tab, 1 essence tab and 3 normal tabs. For any regular player that would be plenty.

last i checked $30 > $0