You know the thing about RNG?

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TremorAcePV написал:

My point is that there is some degree of skill that can be applied to RNG (really, it's more like knowledge) to give yourself an advantage in it.

Everyone knows, orbs are for currency. Unless you've got orbs coming out of your ass, that's the only answer for crafting. Which is why I can agree with orb drop rates increasing. If they're falling out of everyones ass, it's not the obvious choice.

I vote GGG changes their company name RNGG(Random Number Generated Game) Everything is RNG in this game and the game actually lacks anything else if you really look at it.

Agree with Scrote. Clearly the RNG in PoE is not a problem for many. GGG made it that way so y'all who are crying about it should adjust your expectations or play something else, rather than trying to claim it's 'bad design' and whatever other abuse you want to use as an excuse for your personal tastes not being catered to. RNG is fine. More RNG!

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b15h09 написал:

Everyone knows, orbs are for currency. Unless you've got orbs coming out of your ass, that's the only answer for crafting. Which is why I can agree with orb drop rates increasing. If they're falling out of everyones ass, it's not the obvious choice.

This is like saying that winning the lottery will solve all your financial problems. In an interesting psychological twist, it doesn't.

It's as simple as this: if there are upgrades available on the market, that's the smartest buy, even if you have a full stash tab of Exalts somehow. If there isn't an upgrade on the market, you're going to have to make it yourself. The only reason to use orbs to make gear is because you can't trade for it.

Would increased drop rates increase the amount of crafting that goes on for those in the bottom 80%? Yes. But only in the stupid way that lottery winners blow through all their money. The smart move would still be trading, and thus the dominant behavior would not change.

Want the masses to actually use their orbs? Make them untradeable. There's no other way; the demand for orbs from the cannot-trade top 5% is too strong, so they're the ones that will end up using them if you allow orb trades.

The point is, stop blaming RNG for something that's not RNG's fault. It's the hand-me-down effect that's the culprit here; RNG is totally irrelevant to the trading discussion. What you do with orbs once you have them has zero to do with how you acquire them, or how often.

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ScrotieMcB написал:

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b15h09 написал:

Everyone knows, orbs are for currency. Unless you've got orbs coming out of your ass, that's the only answer for crafting. Which is why I can agree with orb drop rates increasing. If they're falling out of everyones ass, it's not the obvious choice.

This is like saying that winning the lottery will solve all your financial problems. In an interesting psychological twist, it doesn't.

It's as simple as this: if there are upgrades available on the market, that's the smartest buy, even if you have a full stash tab of Exalts somehow. If there isn't an upgrade on the market, you're going to have to make it yourself. The only reason to use orbs to make gear is because you can't trade for it.

Would increased drop rates increase the amount of crafting that goes on for those in the bottom 80%? Yes. But only in the stupid way that lottery winners blow through all their money. The smart move would still be trading, and thus the dominant behavior would not change.

Want the masses to actually use their orbs? Make them untradeable. There's no other way; the demand for orbs from the cannot-trade top 5% is too strong, so they're the ones that will end up using them if you allow orb trades.

The point is, stop blaming RNG for something that's not RNG's fault. It's the hand-me-down effect that's the culprit here; RNG is totally irrelevant to the trading discussion. What you do with orbs once you have them has zero to do with how you acquire them, or how often.

Scrotie, winning the lottery would solve all of my financial problems right now. Why ? because I'm not stupid. See, that's the third level of lottery RNG, first is the random numbers on your ticket, second in the random numbers generated by the machine, third is the intellect of the random person that wins.

Dude in my country won 17 million dollars once, spent it all on cars and bikes, didn't build a house, didn't invest, didn't put any in an interest earning account. Kept his same ole broke down home and died speeding on one of his bikes.

Off topic post.

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johnKeys написал:

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Powertrip написал:

Скрытый текст

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ScrotieMcB написал:

It's not a balance system. It's a fun system. Knowing what's going to happen isn't fun.

If I'm crafting a weapon or Armour, Yes, I'd like to know what's going to happen. If I'm entering into a map or approaching a boss, then Yes, I'd love randomly generated areas and complex and engaging mob behavior.

PoE kind of does RNG ass backwards, a science as precise as crafting, they randomize into uselessness, while areas, mobs and bosses are same, stale and stale. They then attempt to make up for lacking mob design with math. Minus player defense, multiply monster offense. Wash rinse repeat.

Until the same skeletons and zombies that walk up to you>>pause>>turn away>>shuffle a little>>THEN ATTACK, hit you so hard that if they fart in your general vicinity and you haven't stacked health or ES, you die.

Too much RNG is a symptom of lacking mechanics.

I agree with this, but I also think it's unfair to expect it from GGG, considering it's their first game and it's not finished yet.

when thinking about challenge and fun based on random events, and monsters' "group AI" - a game like Torchlight 2 comes to mind.
a game where there are a multitude of small quests to keep you busy, where a single non-boss mob isn't necessarily a threat (unless it's huge and menacing), but a group can really make you sweat:
- because of terrain composition, and random location-based events.
- because of mobs' tendency to surround you, and/or jump at you when you least expect it.
- because of monster skills having a synergy with those of other monsters in the group.
- because of "support skills" monsters can use (like tractor-beams, or immobilization) which don't deal any damage directly, but can and will make your character enter a world of hurt quickly.

it's a different design philosophy. one putting content before math - which is later used only to tweak the difficulty this way or the other.

but I can't say GGG did none of it, because some things are definitely in there:
apes jumping from trees. squids unburrowing. mobs casting curses. suicide-bombing. exploding corpses. Vaal Oversoul's AI...
it's not enough, but GGG will learn. if not in the release-version of this game, then in the next one.
still, Path Of Exile is a form of "old-school" approach - extremely addictive, but feels like a senseless grind most of the time: doing Merciless Lunaris runs hoping a Glorious Plate and an Orb Of Chance drop, getting them on the 20th run (or 30th. or 40th), failing, running out of orbs, and repeating.

in the "new-school ARPG", it's important to make the players feel like they are doing something meaningful, and getting loot as a reward - even if it's still essentially the same grind under the surface.

Geez, I started a really log post agreeing with you and discussing the tech used in both games and how they restrict the ability of PoE's developers to create an engaging gameplay experience, but damn too many thoughts and it was shaping up to be an essay :)

Basically, to the trained eye and observer, the RNG in Path of Exile is used to mask it's lack of challenging gameplay. The tech used to create the game limits the capabilities of the mobs which GGG makes up for with minus/multiply Cruel, Merc and Map modes.

If people had a proper crafting system, where links and affixes could be obtained with reasonable effort, the content would be steamrolled, so by restricting itemization progression with RNG, ( something I don't believe any developer should do) mobs with simple linear behavior become challenging, not because they are difficult to out play, but simply because they now have better numbers that the sum of your gear.

What concerns me, is that in another thread a while back, someone mentioned talking to a dev and said that GGG has no intention to improve mob behavior code and if this is true, it would be a sad day for PoE and gaming, where a game is designed to be beaten with spreadsheets and math, than by gameplay and challenging content.

A quick look at the forums tells this story. How many threads are started asking for advice on techniques to defeat a certain boss ( which never seem to go beyond a sum of some enfeeble/decoy totem variant) as opposed to threads started on advice on optimizing a build ? in which case with an optimized build and exalt bought gear, just blow everything up.

In PoE, the mobs are treated as just something to kill in bulk, a source of XP towards another skill point and build progression. The build is all that is important. But shouldn't it be the other way around ? Shouldn't your build and weapons and armour be your means of progression against the content of the game ?

@Powertrip: You might want to google "Mad prophecies Brother Laz" and read the articles. You'll likely disagree with what BrotherLaz has to say, but he's influential as the creator of the MedianXL mod for Diablo 2... and as unique item designer for Path of Exile.

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ScrotieMcB написал:

@Powertrip: You might want to google "Mad prophecies Brother Laz" and read the articles. You'll likely disagree with what BrotherLaz has to say, but he's influential as the creator of the MedianXL mod for Diablo 2... and as unique item designer for Path of Exile.

I'll check it out :)

you and I think alike Powertrip.

unfortunately, your long and intelligent post will only join previous long, intelligent posts - on GGG's "ignore" list.

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ScrotieMcB написал:

It's as simple as this: if there are upgrades available on the market, that's the smartest buy, even if you have a full stash tab of Exalts somehow. If there isn't an upgrade on the market, you're going to have to make it yourself. The only reason to use orbs to make gear is because you can't trade for it.

Would increased drop rates increase the amount of crafting that goes on for those in the bottom 80%? Yes. But only in the stupid way that lottery winners blow through all their money. The smart move would still be trading, and thus the dominant behavior would not change.

Want the masses to actually use their orbs? Make them untradeable. There's no other way; the demand for orbs from the cannot-trade top 5% is too strong, so they're the ones that will end up using them if you allow orb trades.

The point is, stop blaming RNG for something that's not RNG's fault. It's the hand-me-down effect that's the culprit here; RNG is totally irrelevant to the trading discussion. What you do with orbs once you have them has zero to do with how you acquire them, or how often.

I don't think the lottery analogy is quite right here, because of the itemization. For every step you take into content, itemization deals with increasing layers of RNG. Magic/Rares become less and less likely to be a level appropriate base item, and roll level appropriate mods that are useful to you (or anyone). This could be offset by allowing more chances at rolling something decent through higher currency drop rates (though I'd prefer a system where an item couldn't roll mods below 20 levels under it's ilvl or so, though). Uniques are done very well in this game for the most part, because they have rather fixed stats that are designed for their level, combined with interesting extra effects. Magic/Rares are itemized in a way similar to D3. No low end cap on the crap it can roll.

Don't get me wrong, I love the idea where a plate vest can roll a 6L, and I'd like to see base items of low level be able to roll in higher level content still. The mod system creates an artificial difficulty curve in keeping up with content by showering you with inappropriately itemized gear, though. Works fine at level 20. Throwing an alch at a white for an upgrade yields good results for your level fairly often. Not so much the case at higher levels.