Why I've given up hope of this game becoming great (but not quite on GGG)

Also, on topic, I agree with you Scrotie. I've felt this way for awhile but I try not to think about it because it only depresses me. It is a shame too.

I agree with you ScrotieMcB. Really nicely said. But i still think GGG can change and has time to change. We will see what will happen with the mini expansion and the big one coming next year.

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kasub написал:

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I hate to say it but PoE feels like a poorly stitched together B horror film compared to D3.

Only in the cinematic,optimization and netcode areas. D3 is extremely simplistic compared to many systems that exist in PoE.

I've thought about this for awhile and I have to disagree. Most the of the complexity in PoE is false and used either to just look complex/cool or impose arbitrary rng gates. And there are so few things that actually work in PoE that the complexity simply slips away.

1350+ passives yet you'll find yourself using the same ones over, and over... and over. Same with itemization. And those cool uniques? They don't exist unless you trad2win. Same with skills, there are so many mandatory supports and you can only realistically plan for a four link unless you trade2win the complexity there goes away as well.

The more I think about those kinds of things the less the game has going for it really. All the hope I felt for PoE in CB and OB never really panned out. I always thought they were going to fix the more fundamental issues but instead they just keep piling on more poorly thought out and poorly tested new content on top of those same old issues.

Idk, maybe I'm just disillusioned after putting up with all the hours of poor design and bad ideas in PoE. I mean hell even the drops are shit and that's the one thing that's supposed to be fun about an ARPG.

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lukeiy написал:

In my experience, desync only gets bad when I try to do something remotely strategic.

In other words, whenever it actually matters.

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morbo написал:

If your char has to click on mobs then you are fucked sooner or later.

It's actually amazing how many separate, and not heavily discussed, negatives are in this sentence. Overly small hitboxes, the predominance of AoE skills over single-target, desync and other performance issues taking away strategic depth. Not a good state to be in.

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GeorgAnatoly написал:

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kasub написал:

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I hate to say it but PoE feels like a poorly stitched together B horror film compared to D3.

Only in the cinematic,optimization and netcode areas. D3 is extremely simplistic compared to many systems that exist in PoE.

I've thought about this for awhile and I have to disagree. Most the of the complexity in PoE is false and used either to just look complex/cool or impose arbitrary rng gates. And there are so few things that actually work in PoE that the complexity simply slips away.

1350+ passives yet you'll find yourself using the same ones over, and over... and over. Same with itemization.

The itemization and passive systems in Path of Exile clearly have more complexity (and, more importantly, depth) than Diablo 3. However, that's kind of like saying one is smarter than a chimp; sometimes more isn't enough.

I personally feel that the contrast with Diablo 3's systems made Path of Exile seem artificially impressive in the beginning, much in the same way the normal-looking person looks better when next to their ugly friends. This brought a lot of interest and word-of-mouth into Path of Exile, and I'm not saying that's a bad thing at all... but I feel like GGG may have gotten a bit complacent with it and done less than they should have to create more interesting passive tree choices, and/or more interesting itemization choices.

For the record I don't think either the affix system nor the passive tree are done poorly. I just think they're actually quite average, especially once you start stripping illusion of complexity from the tree. The passive tree in particular could have been done in a far more amazing way; it's a system of great potential when it gives players relevant choices instead of automatic decisions, and at times the game still manages to put players in such a position... but not very often.

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ScrotieMcB написал:

The itemization and passive systems in Path of Exile clearly have more complexity (and, more importantly, depth) than Diablo 3. However, that's kind of like saying one is smarter than a chimp; sometimes more isn't enough.

You're not letting yourself see PoE's itemization and passive tree objectively scrotie. It is in fact inferior, and not just to D3.

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GeorgAnatoly написал:

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ScrotieMcB написал:

The itemization and passive systems in Path of Exile clearly have more complexity (and, more importantly, depth) than Diablo 3. However, that's kind of like saying one is smarter than a chimp; sometimes more isn't enough.

You're not letting yourself see PoE's itemization and passive tree objectively scrotie. It is in fact inferior, and not just to D3.

I think, it would be fallacy to speak in absolutes. Especially when the meta-discussion is about what potential could have been.

PoE is certainly rife with non-choices (I blame a power creep centric design) where various affix and passives are favored (necessary) over others. That doesn't mean their potential, or failed realization of that potential, are inherently inferior.

As I understand it, D3 basically boils down to a direct comparison of one or two numbers (I could well be wrong!). Path of Exile still has a variety of "must-haves" that, prior to buying all the things, challenges the player to fit missing pieces together. That to me, subjectively, sounds like a far more superior system, even if the failed potential is disappointing.

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1350+ passives yet you'll find yourself using the same ones over, and over... and over.

That's not really true. The passive skilltree is not "false complexity". Many builds have different optimal paths, there is popular highways but that does not dismiss
the diversity of the tree.

It might not look like it but many new builds keep appearing that are optimized in different ways. There is a lot preferences you can choose so even when people use the same build you'll see tons of variations depending on what a person prefers. Some paths being improved is always nice but even now the tree does not lack diversity. I've seen a lot of different kind of builds especially ones that were never used previously.

As for the superior systems that you take for granted, I'll list them:

- The flask system is genius compared to other arpgs in general. There is a huge variety of types of flasks and then there is a big pool of affixes and no there is even unique flasks that do completely different effects. All of these add up to make a very interesting flask system that involves a lot of choice. Many people will pick vastly different flasks depending on the situation, their build and their preference.

- The whole basis of the crafting system is brilliant. All orbs you acquire can be used as currency but can also be used to influence anything. You can craft flasks like I mentioned earlier, you can affect maps with any currency, and now you can even affect strongboxes. Crafting on items is something that's constantly done but people seem to only judge the crafting system with highend crafting which is silly. Crafting is a bit too luck based when going beyond a 5 link or 5 socket and is the only area that truly needs improvement.

- The map system as a whole is not given enough credit. Maps are not always easy to get so you're encouraged to run a variety of lower maps and to keep that up. You're also encouraged to alch maps constantly. Running something with temporal, fractured, double damage mods, minus max, elemental weakness are all encouraged to maximize the amount of maps you might obtain. This means the game will keep pushing the challenge late game and you'll keep doing a variety of maps. This curbs repetition since you'll constantly seek out challenging content in a different number of maps.

- The affix system in general is eons ahead of D3's. D3 has a plain system where armor reduces ALL damage, resists keep inflating to reduce all kinds of damage, main stats just keep getting bigger with each patch and give damage+defenses, recently they even removed the point of dex since now it acts completely the same as str(gives armor). Your main weapon is your whole damage and there is no affix variety worth mentioning. D3's idea of an expansion is pretty much doubling all those stats.

PoE has a big variety of defenses in comparision. You can focus on armor only if you want or you can put ECoM on your main skill and have a high level IC on cwdt which makes you immune to physical while constantly getting ECs. You can use acrobatics, ondar's,block/spellblock, focus on only max res + mobility, go for mind over matter+arctic armor, go for uniques that convert damage like lightning coil/indancesant heart...etc.

Affix variety is great in general in PoE outside chest pieces possibly(ignoring uniques though which offer their own diversity) Take a wand for example. One build might seek out +2 cold gems and purely spell damage to put arctic armor in and scale arc off only spell damage(and nothing else). A FP build would want projectile speed, spell damage and crit chance most perhaps. Someone using searing bond would want +3 to fire gems and as much fire damage on the wand to scale SB. A wander would branch out into purely elemental mods with crit/IAS, physical or even a hybrid for some builds. Something like a discharger only cares about crit chance/crit multi so that would be their main focus.

I can keep going on about different systems in PoE that are complex in a good way. They fundamentally offer a big variety of things you can do to builds that D3 doesn't even touch. I like D3 and played it for half a year by the way so it's not like I don't see its appeal. In PoE though I always have a big incentive to start over and reroll. I find out about new interesting builds weekly. To me the optimization of the tree is what makes it, anyone can make a typical passivetree that works but few truly optimize it.

Heh, I can't take anyone seriously who actually thinks that D3's complexity and depth come even close to PoE's. Mindless hating or simply no clue?

Nicely said, I agree that desync is the biggest problem with the game, as it forces GGG to balance the game differently, along with just making the game clunky to play.

The monster damage is so high that it either requires people to overpower the content, or try to use smart positioning. But well, smart positioning is not really a thing in this game (ty desync), so it all comes down to gear and stacking defense.

Another thing is that, because of desync, GGG is fine with people logging out of the game to save their characters. The problem is that this way, nobody fucking dies without insane spike damage. Well, GGG took the easiest route and delivered insane spike damage, which everybody has to deal with by stacking as much life and resists as possible.

Desync causes all this shit, and desync also prevents it from being solved. Other balance decisions and the way GGG handle balance overall (Do way too little or way too much, and then just leave it alone, thinking it's not a problem anymore.) are also very questionable, but that's still not the main problem. Something is really wrong when the complete inability to balance the game is only a secondary problem.

Agreed. I have sadly given up hope on GGG. I really doubt they can pull out a full sequel to this game, based on how long it takes them to produce regular content, and with their non-existing QA and balancing team. I just don't see it, maybe with Kickstarter...

There is some complexity in PoE skill tree, that much can't be denied, much more than in any other game of similar genre. But my main gripe with skill tree are Notable Passives. They were supposed to be about making hard, meaningful decisions - 'I get THIS thing, but in return I lose THAT thing'. Nowdays, every Notable is just braindead decision of taking another bonus, without any disadvantages. I really think if GGG pushed this concept to it's boundaries, you would have immensely engaging skill tree that forces you to make decisions based on your gameplay. And if they didn't get complacent, they would just remove 20-30% of skill nodes that serve no purpose except to clutter the skill tree and making it seem more complex than it is.

And let's not forget when your starting area had 4 distinct opening paths. Now it's all about taking these 4 nodes and then connecting to the other branch.

Also, I still haven't forgotten them the power creep.

I don't know what happened with GGG since CB, maybe they got too big for their own good, maybe the GotY and all the praise made them think they know what is best for the players, but it's not the same game anymore. Even the introduction of Ball Lighting wasn't incentive enough to make me start the game again.

Also enjoying DOS now, it's hard game, but feels fair in it's hardness.