Idea for the FFA loot system

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lethal_papercut написал:

I give up.

Until GGG pipe up with an official response all we are doing in these threads is this.

We just have to hope that the more these threads are discussed (and loot is discussed more than any other issue, so you'd think they'd realize it needs tweaked at a minimum) the more likely they are to make a change that makes us happy.

Meh, I am starting to believe that GGG have no intentions of changing anything about the looting and are letting threads like this go on as a way to make us believe there may be some semblance of hope that GGG are listening and willing to review the current method.

I just wish they would come out and say it in a sticky & let us get on with our lives rather than going round in endless circles in the forum with the hope our voices are being heard.

Surely by now they are either open to the idea of loot options & are willing to test it in beta or they aren't? But as I have said before, what's more frustrating than FFA loot is forum posts that are pages & pages long that go absolutely nowhere!

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wiggin написал:

Not reading everything here but one thing caught my eye - FFA loot system is promoting team work.

No it is not, not in the slightest. Teamwork just softens its hostility. This hostility is however something GGG intended to implement.

You don't see people who are picking apples from the same tree to ninja each others apples. If they did that, their teamwork would be considered really poor and everything would take longer. However if they only take the apples that are near them, then they have it all done faster and can go sell all the apples sooner.

You can see FFA system does nothing to teamwork. It would promote it if the people not working like a team were penalized for their behaviour. However they are not, they are rewarded for it - actually the rest of their team is penalized since they "steal" all the loot from them.

Conflict promotes team development. FFA loot provides a source of conflict. Theres almost nothing else in the game to provide conflict, aside from the ladder/events. Instanced loot provides a conflict-less bubble to play with yourself in. It protects you from having to kick some selfish person from the group. Instanced loot is really provides no team growth. It removes an element of the game and allows the team to stagnate.

FFA loot makes it incredibly easy to identify and kick selfish people from the group, by clearly marking them through their selfish looting behavior. It also makes it easy to identify decent people who are worth befriending and playing with in the future, which I've had happen many times in PoE and prior games.

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indczn написал:

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wiggin написал:

Not reading everything here but one thing caught my eye - FFA loot system is promoting team work.

No it is not, not in the slightest. Teamwork just softens its hostility. This hostility is however something GGG intended to implement.

You don't see people who are picking apples from the same tree to ninja each others apples. If they did that, their teamwork would be considered really poor and everything would take longer. However if they only take the apples that are near them, then they have it all done faster and can go sell all the apples sooner.

You can see FFA system does nothing to teamwork. It would promote it if the people not working like a team were penalized for their behaviour. However they are not, they are rewarded for it - actually the rest of their team is penalized since they "steal" all the loot from them.

Conflict promotes team development. FFA loot provides a source of conflict. Theres almost nothing else in the game to provide conflict, aside from the ladder/events. Instanced loot provides a conflict-less bubble to play with yourself in. It protects you from having to kick some selfish person from the group. Instanced loot is really provides no team growth. It removes an element of the game and allows the team to stagnate.

FFA loot makes it incredibly easy to identify and kick selfish people from the group, by clearly marking them through their selfish looting behavior. It also makes it easy to identify decent people who are worth befriending and playing with in the future, which I've had happen many times in PoE and prior games.

Okay, sorry but no.
This is like saying conflict makes for a more interesting marriage.

1) Conflict does not promote team development, it promotes playing in a "conflict-less bubble".
Instanced loot promotes playing with other people because you are sure that you won't have any disadvantages compared to playing alone.
2) It allows the team to stagnate.. what?! I dont even...
3) Identifying decent people is even easier by TALKING to them, instead of observing their loot behaviour.

I agree that FFA loot adds to the overall hostile feeling of the game and the world, but what you just wrote is just completly wrong. There is absolutly no way that the average player says: "oh yeah FFA loot, I should play in a group with random strangers because I'm sure our team will... grow...and not... stagnate"

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indczn написал:

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wiggin написал:

Not reading everything here but one thing caught my eye - FFA loot system is promoting team work.

No it is not, not in the slightest. Teamwork just softens its hostility. This hostility is however something GGG intended to implement.

You don't see people who are picking apples from the same tree to ninja each others apples. If they did that, their teamwork would be considered really poor and everything would take longer. However if they only take the apples that are near them, then they have it all done faster and can go sell all the apples sooner.

You can see FFA system does nothing to teamwork. It would promote it if the people not working like a team were penalized for their behaviour. However they are not, they are rewarded for it - actually the rest of their team is penalized since they "steal" all the loot from them.

Conflict promotes team development. FFA loot provides a source of conflict. Theres almost nothing else in the game to provide conflict, aside from the ladder/events. Instanced loot provides a conflict-less bubble to play with yourself in. It protects you from having to kick some selfish person from the group. Instanced loot is really provides no team growth. It removes an element of the game and allows the team to stagnate.

FFA loot makes it incredibly easy to identify and kick selfish people from the group, by clearly marking them through their selfish looting behavior. It also makes it easy to identify decent people who are worth befriending and playing with in the future, which I've had happen many times in PoE and prior games.

I agree. It does promote team development and friendships in the game. In very much the same manner that trading currently does.

In all honesty, remember instanced loot aficionados. It's all the teams loot. It just has your name on it for a couple seconds. It never is yours.

Ditch the name and leave the timer, maybe some of the entitlement will go away too

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SL4Y3R написал:

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indczn написал:

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wiggin написал:

Not reading everything here but one thing caught my eye - FFA loot system is promoting team work.

No it is not, not in the slightest. Teamwork just softens its hostility. This hostility is however something GGG intended to implement.

You don't see people who are picking apples from the same tree to ninja each others apples. If they did that, their teamwork would be considered really poor and everything would take longer. However if they only take the apples that are near them, then they have it all done faster and can go sell all the apples sooner.

You can see FFA system does nothing to teamwork. It would promote it if the people not working like a team were penalized for their behaviour. However they are not, they are rewarded for it - actually the rest of their team is penalized since they "steal" all the loot from them.

Conflict promotes team development. FFA loot provides a source of conflict. Theres almost nothing else in the game to provide conflict, aside from the ladder/events. Instanced loot provides a conflict-less bubble to play with yourself in. It protects you from having to kick some selfish person from the group. Instanced loot is really provides no team growth. It removes an element of the game and allows the team to stagnate.

FFA loot makes it incredibly easy to identify and kick selfish people from the group, by clearly marking them through their selfish looting behavior. It also makes it easy to identify decent people who are worth befriending and playing with in the future, which I've had happen many times in PoE and prior games.

I agree. It does promote team development and friendships in the game. In very much the same manner that trading currently does.

In all honesty, remember instanced loot aficionados. It's all the teams loot. It just has your name on it for a couple seconds. It never is yours.

Ditch the name and leave the timer, maybe some of the entitlement will go away too

I disagree with everything you two said but I don't need to argue about it.....BECAUSE IT DOESN'T MATTER. People
are always going to disagree about this and no one is right or wrong. Arguing about it is officially stupid. I can argue about it all day long, but it goes NOWHERE. Looting options is the way to go.

p.s. Forced conflict is stupid....IMO

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indczn написал:

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wiggin написал:

Not reading everything here but one thing caught my eye - FFA loot system is promoting team work.

No it is not, not in the slightest. Teamwork just softens its hostility. This hostility is however something GGG intended to implement.

You don't see people who are picking apples from the same tree to ninja each others apples. If they did that, their teamwork would be considered really poor and everything would take longer. However if they only take the apples that are near them, then they have it all done faster and can go sell all the apples sooner.

You can see FFA system does nothing to teamwork. It would promote it if the people not working like a team were penalized for their behaviour. However they are not, they are rewarded for it - actually the rest of their team is penalized since they "steal" all the loot from them.

Conflict promotes team development. FFA loot provides a source of conflict. Theres almost nothing else in the game to provide conflict, aside from the ladder/events. Instanced loot provides a conflict-less bubble to play with yourself in. It protects you from having to kick some selfish person from the group. Instanced loot is really provides no team growth. It removes an element of the game and allows the team to stagnate.

FFA loot makes it incredibly easy to identify and kick selfish people from the group, by clearly marking them through their selfish looting behavior. It also makes it easy to identify decent people who are worth befriending and playing with in the future, which I've had happen many times in PoE and prior games.

Conflict can promote team development only if the whole team wants to develop. If the team has a player or two that has no interest in playing altruistically, that player can ignore the attempts of others to promote team cohesion. Competition is a deep-rooted panic instinct, whereas cooperation has to be nurtured and appreciated; when one player begins playing for themselves, the structure of the team goes out the window.

All it takes is one Leroy Jenkins, after all, to ruin the whole thing.

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anubite написал:

There. Is. No. System. That. Stops. Ninja. Looting.

Yes there is. Soulbound drop from Realm of the mad god, visible only for you, although containing items from certain tier upwards only, all them "whites" are still being shared. Just my two cents, not saying this should be implemented to PoE, even if it would be a damn nice mechanic for extra rare items like exalts etc.

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lethal_papercut написал:

Meh, I am starting to believe that GGG have no intentions of changing anything about the looting and are letting threads like this go on as a way to make us believe there may be some semblance of hope that GGG are listening and willing to review the current method.

I just wish they would come out and say it in a sticky & let us get on with our lives rather than going round in endless circles in the forum with the hope our voices are being heard.

Surely by now they are either open to the idea of loot options & are willing to test it in beta or they aren't? But as I have said before, what's more frustrating than FFA loot is forum posts that are pages & pages long that go absolutely nowhere!

They made their position clear long ago regarding the looting system:

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/392

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It's important to us that Path of Exile has a cut-throat feel where players are not only competing against monsters, but also their fellow players. We do not feel it is an option to arbitrarily hide items from players who have not been allocated them.

To my knowledge, they have not made any further posts on this matter nor have they announced any intention of including different looting options. As such, you should not take the absence of GGG posts in any looting-related thread as indication of anything; they simply have nothing new to add to the conversation from their perspective. If/when they do: you'll know.

Otherwise it's safe to assume their vision for their game has not changed. I'm willing to trust in that vision.

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Chris написал:

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DooberPoE написал:

If GGG won't address a thread with 120 pages already on the topic...why do you think they will listen here?

I hate FFA just as much as anyone else...but GGG ain't listening to this topic.

We're listening, we're just not prepared to make any changes to that mechanic at this stage.

Regarding the initial screenshot in this thread: I completely agree that the number of items that drop from situations like that is excessive. Hiding two thirds of the items from each player isn't really solving the fact that we need to fix the distribution of item drops from magic and above monsters.

When devs make comments like this it leads us to believe that they are considering a change and their "vision" is not clad in iron. Some of us have receive similar PM's from devs saying something similar.

I really hope that the devs say something a little more concrete so this horse does not continue to be beaten to death over the next 6 months.

Edit: Here is the PM that I received from Chris a few months back....


Re: Loot discussion
Sent: July 20, 2012 7:19 AM
From: Chris
To: iamstryker

Hi there,

The current loot timer represents the way that we intend it to be played in the near future (we're happy with the results of it mitigating unfairness and also keeping people on their toes). I think the user interface for it may be improved (a progress bar rather than a countdown, for example).

Of course, this can definitely change in the future. If you feel strongly that it should be more or less FFA, you're definitely not wasting your breath. This is just how we're going to leave it for a little while while we work on other things.

Kind regards,
Chris