Dear Rory

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davidnn5 написал:
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ScrotieMcB написал:
Balance is not about making everything similar, but about making variety viable. In this context, I literally cannot think of anything which was more overpowered in PoE than the relationship between Reduced Mana and reservation skills.
The two sentences do not follow. Balance is about variety, so reduced mana is bad - what?? How does that follow. Are you suggesting that there should be multiple ways to reduce mana reservation via gems (i.e. more variety)?...

I'm used to you putting more thought into your posts and explanations Scrotie. Please explain why reduced mana is bad. As it is, most people seem to be agreeing that the change doesn't promote diversity. People in leagues will be forced into playing with 1 aura + 1 herald, 1 aura +2 heralds and blood magic, or 3 heralds. They might add one more herald or aura late in the piece once they've travelled all over to get reduced mana reservation. Low-life rich people will still be stacking nearly as many auras as before but will need multiple level 4 enlightens to do so (they mostly already have +1 gem items so that won't hit their bank accounts).
1. RM on auras was worse than GMP on Freezing Pulse in terms of support gem dominance.
2. A level 5 Enhance (max level, level corruption, +1 level from gear) is a 16% less modifier (4% per level beyond 1). It is grossly misleading to say the rich will still be able to run as many auras as before.
3. Less auras per person does not necessarily mean less variety of auras chosen. It is situational. The basis is combinatorial math: if there are four "viable" choices for a build, you get maximum diversity with "pick two" (six combinations) and less with both "pick one" and "pick three" (four combinations each).
4. I do not believe this change alone is enough to encourage sufficient build diversity from an aura perspective. Auras still have precious few support options, making even a nerfed version of RM a ridiculously strong option. I feel it is a good start to allow more supports to be created without each being disproprtionately powerful, but we need more supports to finish the job.
When Stephen Colbert was killed by HYDRA's Project Insight in 2014, the comedy world lost a hero. Since his life model decoy isn't up to the task, please do not mistake my performance as political discussion. I'm just doing what Steve would have wanted.
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ScrotieMcB написал:
I feel it is a good start to allow more supports to be created without each being disproprtionately powerful, but we need more supports to finish the job.


Yeah, something like the opposite of generosity would be nice, let's call it 'greed', a support able to turn an aura into a herald by removing AoE and reducing reservation.

Oh, wait, we don't give a rat's ass about other players anyway.
Wish the armchair developers would go back to developing armchairs.

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PrimordialDarkness написал:
Here is another idea: current Reduced Mana gem goes legacy, as the new one is useless anyway (nobody ever would use up a gemslot for reduced mana cost of skills), Item Quantity style.

New gem, "Reduced Mana cost" introduced in its place.

People in Perm leagues are happy because their builds still work.

People in temp leagues are happy because they get the new stuff.

Yeah, Legacy Reduced mana will be OP with new values in Auras, but the people who MIGHT give a shit about that will not be in SC anyway. It's no different from other OP legacy items anyway :>

Not the best from a balancing perspective, but it's no worse than what GGG have already done, and CERTAINLY no worse than what they are doing now. Middle ground.
And you would make every build in the perm leagues insanely OP. Unless you plan on making all the other balance changes legacy as well. You know they are reducing the mana reservations on the aura gems and will increase the nodes on the tree as well. Making RM a legacy gem would just let every build run one or more additional auras on top of what they run now.
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ScrotieMcB написал:
1. RM on auras was worse than GMP on Freezing Pulse in terms of support gem dominance.
2. A level 5 Enhance (max level, level corruption, +1 level from gear) is a 16% less modifier (4% per level beyond 1). It is grossly misleading to say the rich will still be able to run as many auras as before.
3. Less auras per person does not necessarily mean less variety of auras chosen. It is situational. The basis is combinatorial math: if there are four "viable" choices for a build, you get maximum diversity with "pick two" (six combinations) and less with both "pick one" and "pick three" (four combinations each).
4. I do not believe this change alone is enough to encourage sufficient build diversity from an aura perspective. Auras still have precious few support options, making even a nerfed version of RM a ridiculously strong option. I feel it is a good start to allow more supports to be created without each being disproprtionately powerful, but we need more supports to finish the job.


Thanks for elaborating!

In terms of your point 1... I can't say much but so? It's tempting to say correlation of player use of reduced mana is not causation of OP, even though it's misusing the phrase :P

2. This is pretty fun to play with - https://poe.mikelat.com/beta/#RcAmGegb/TFMwFMB. I can dial up 10 (random) auras with low-life using an alpha and level 5 enlighten, 8 probably being a reasonable 'can still do stuff' amount. So I would say most definitely the rich will be able to stack as much as before, but everyone lower down the food chain gets shafted.

3. Great maths, but again... so? While computationally one option will provide more *sets* of auras to use, if you ask anyone who's playing if they prefer 2 or 3 auras they won't be saying '2, I prefer more options to maths with!'. 16 auras not including tempest shield - I don't think the number of options is really the issue here.

Generally agree with your 4. Edit: embedding url.
Последняя редакция: davidnn5#4453. Время: 8 мая 2015 г., 19:46:02
^ There's a difference between 16 auras * always 1 support and 16 auras * 0-4 different support options.

The former merely adds socket pressure for the sake of it (the socket and str req tax every single build paid to run RM). The latter makes full use of socket pressure as an engaging device by allowing genuine build decisions.

I.e., rather than "which auras" it's "which auras with which supports."
Devolving Wilds
Land
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Uh, but it was 'which auras with reduced mana', now it's 'which auras with enlighten (if I can find and level one up)'... What's the difference exactly?
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grepman написал:

so, you might want to consider educating yourself on how software development process works, since you already have the eloquent speech part down.

No thanks, retired from a 30-year career in that industry five years ago, hence my affectionate regard for the "technical point of view".
maybe he don't need to test them himself
Whack a molers that will kill diversity in this game.

First of all "aura reliant" builds are few and far between. the 100% resits builds and a few other so it was never a problem. If you take away RM the vast majority of ppl will see no change in number of auras or lose 1 DPS aura. Not game changing at all.


About half my builds will work fine with one less aura or wont skip a beat running same amount. The other half the aura reliant ones. I better get back to flipping operations no poor boys allowed. lol. So is it really making game more diverse or more exclusionary?

Think about it.

Meh whatever. Like my dad says winners allowed to cry a day losers cry a lifetime. I'm done crying for my day.
Git R Dun!
Последняя редакция: Aim_Deep#3474. Время: 8 мая 2015 г., 21:54:38
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raics написал:
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grepman написал:
I very much doubt gems will go legacy anytime soon. there was no precedent before and those that could go legacy(phase run for example) were simply removed. yeah that was before the OB so it was elegant that they were simply wiped, but still...


You probably missed Item Quantity going legacy. Phase run got phased out (it's a pun!) when they performed the last wipe, that's why it hasn't went legacy.
bah youre right, that was a brain fart by me. I stand corrected.

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