Dear Rory
" And how often is that experience actually consulted? Because based on past actions (and even the more recent ones), it seems like GGG is just doing MTG like balancing where they just change/nerf/rework whatever is popular and way overbuff what is 'weak.' And no, having strong in-game experience is actually required to work in QA/Balance of a video game. Particularly with ones that are as complex and open ended in terms of combinations as Path of Exile. Otherwise, you end up with disastrous balance changes like SC2. Blizzard's refusal to hire a competent QA / lead balancer lead to some of the worst changes possible. Последняя редакция: allbusiness#6050. Время: 10 мая 2015 г., 00:58:55
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As a former MTG tournament player, I understand how that game was balanced. But I didn't measure a deck's success purely by its first-place finishes, because if any deck is 50% of the field it only stands to reason that one of the horde would widdle its way into a top 8 finish. Instead you need to look at the average performance of the archetype as a whole to determine the real winner.
This isn't as easy as watching some stream or video. It's definitely not as easy as setting up a playtest gauntlet with your pals to try out new builds. For an established metagame, it's a rigorous statistical process drawing upon the recorded results of hundreds if not thousands of tournament players. So let's not pretend that you or anyone else can divine by feels. A statistician working tournament data might know more about a MTG metagame than you ever would care to. And he might not even actively play a single match. Science is the proper method. Not opinion. Now let us consider the possibilities of automation for a bit. Apparently, GGG can collect data about which keystones players use. They've displayed such data in spiffy infographics in the past. Sites like poestatistics can track things like XP per hour and player deaths. They even know the difference between real XP time and when you're just chilling in town or trading. Thus, logically, it should be possible for GGG to collect data not on the popularity of a node on the passive tree - popularity is irrelevant, really - but instead on the average XP per hour of builds (at any one given level) which have allocated a particular passive node. Possibly they could also do this for item affixes/uniques and for loot per hour (perhaps some formula of XP times the player's IIR/IIQ). Imagine sitting atop such data. Knowing which passives and items generated the most XP per unit time. At that point, would extensively playing the game really be necessary? Wouldn't playing the game for the purpose of making balances decisions blind you to your personal playstyle preferences more than enlighten you? If I was in charge of this game, I wouldn't need to theorize which parts of the game are underpowered. A computer would tell me. When Stephen Colbert was killed by HYDRA's Project Insight in 2014, the comedy world lost a hero. Since his life model decoy isn't up to the task, please do not mistake my performance as political discussion. I'm just doing what Steve would have wanted. Последняя редакция: ScrotieMcB#2697. Время: 10 мая 2015 г., 01:38:50
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PoE is undoubtedly a great game, but sadly has an appalling balance team who doesn't even play their own game. It has become very obvious starting from the 1.1 patch, I don't know why you guys are still surprised.
"Get rich or die grinding"
Lvl 100 Ascendant - RadioactiveSago: HIGHEST KB tooltiplordz in all of PoE (view-thread/1636451) Lvl 100 Assassin - Chonkeyy: Omnislasher 2 mil DPS Flicker Build (view-thread/1571744) |
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" Statistics can only tell you so much. Look at Blood Magic keystone, data says it is being used but it won't tell you it isn't being used for its original purpose at all. I think we've seen that a lot in the past, things that are used too much are getting changed way sooner than things that are being misused. I'd be interested in finding out how long would it take them to glean the clone arrow exploit if we kept it on the hush and out of streams instead of making a ruckus. Wish the armchair developers would go back to developing armchairs.
◄[www.moddb.com/mods/balancedux]► ◄[www.moddb.com/mods/one-vision1]► |
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" lv5 enlighten vs lv20 RM. How about you stop with the Chicken Little? My summoner guide: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1765329
My shop thread: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1748967 |
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" I understand your love for science Scrotie, but your post showed very clearly what I had come to realise already - that you favour numbers and maths and theory over actual experience, and have never worked on a game. As shown by your comparing lvl 21 reduced mana to level 5 enlighten in an analysis a few pages ago. They're not analogues, for reasons obvious to people currently playing the game and stated a number of times here and elsewhere. As an example of how science would lead anyone astray in trying to 'balance' the game, we could conclude using your method that the starting nodes for each class are overpowered because everyone takes them. You can't science to determine how one of a few billion combinations may be overpowered. You really just can't, sorry. Theory and correlation will take you so far then it will drag you off a cliff whereas thorough thought and testing will avoid the cliff. That's what people with many years of experience in games are trying to tell GGG here. |
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Thing is They introduced more flat dps in the 2.0 instead of taking care of the powerful AOE.
Then they nerf Auras thinking it was what made the game too easy (and maybe because too much people are farming atziri) The only balance change this game should have had is the nerf of all AOE skills. Without AOE, no need to buff monsters, no need to nerf auras. Forum pvp https://www.instagram.com/critterspencils/ Последняя редакция: lolozori#1147. Время: 10 мая 2015 г., 06:01:59
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" Numbers are not everything though; you need actual real ingame experience tied with those numbers in order to make proper balancing changes. For example, GGG can see that everyone used CWDT+IC+EC before. Statistically it should say 'nerf this because it's being utilized far too much.' But that doesn't tell the whole story. Only when you play the game and actually experience playing the live game right now without CWDT+IC+EC do you realize how integral that setup is considering how ridiculously bad armor/evasion are on their own. The Reduced Mana Gem change is another example of too much reliance on numbers rather than utilizing actual in game experience and logical deduction. Everyone was using RM, it was silly. I agree. However, did GGG actually stop and realize why everyone was using RM? Because auras are immensely far too strong, and that stacking multiple auras together yields far too many rewards (it is a major reason why LL with Shavs is so ridiculously crazy good, as you can stack a few auras on life, while a few other can be put on mana). Only ingame experience can tell you that, numbers can't tell you that. What still needs to happen to this day is that the power level of auras needs to be reduced, because they are far too integral to the style of the game right now, and wielding multiple auras/heralds gives far greater rewards then simply playing with an uncapped mana pool. And every single major 'competitive' or 'hardcore' multiplayer game that I've known hires a QA balancer that actually does regularly play the game at quite a high level. GGG being the one lone exception. IceFrog for example has a set of super testers that although aren't competitive level players, could easily wipe the floor with 99% of the population (equivalent to most 5k+ players today in DotA 2). One more thing, SC2 blew absolute dick after awhile because their balancing team was lead by a guy named Dustin Browder who had literally no idea how to play the game at a high level. He made a swath of game breaking changes on all races purely based on numbers. Guess what happened to SC2? Went from literally the #1 Esport in the world to an absolutely trash RTS that can't even compete with 10-15 year old games like BW or AoE 2. Последняя редакция: allbusiness#6050. Время: 10 мая 2015 г., 12:29:29
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" I don't really agree with that, I think that power of unreserved mana pool needs to be increased. Wait, I put that one badly, actually power of reserved mana pool needs to be reduced. A viable way to do that would be to just base life/mana regen and leech on available values instead of max. A few more tweaks to the rest of the game (removing BM gem, for one) and you will think twice about reserving 90% of your mana on auras when you see how quickly you will get your mana back. The reason for the aura problem is resource management in this game sucks balls, to put it mildly - it's trivial. That's also why Blood Magic isn't used to power your skills but to power your auras, your skills don't need the help. Wish the armchair developers would go back to developing armchairs.
◄[www.moddb.com/mods/balancedux]► ◄[www.moddb.com/mods/one-vision1]► |
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" "I thought I made it clear that mere popularity is irrelevant. It is average performance which matters. This is a hugely important distinction! And sorry, raics, but it doesn't much matter how people get a thing to work. If it works, it works. Working isn't underpowered. "Actually, I think common sense would tell you that. No experience required. The one thing I should emphasize is that while I believe performance data to be supremely valid as a diagnostic tool, it grants no particular insight into how to actually solve balance problems. I do not mean to say a designer wouldn't learn their own game better by playing it. What I am saying is that there is a separation between the questions "How do I fix this?" and "Does this need fixing?" and that statistics, not personal experience, is the best way to answer the latter question, despite being utterly useless in regard to the former question. When Stephen Colbert was killed by HYDRA's Project Insight in 2014, the comedy world lost a hero. Since his life model decoy isn't up to the task, please do not mistake my performance as political discussion. I'm just doing what Steve would have wanted. Последняя редакция: ScrotieMcB#2697. Время: 10 мая 2015 г., 14:23:44
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