Blade Vortex vs Shaper (Guess who was utterly destroyed in that fight?)

When I left the game like 4 months ago BV was already op. Now I come back and it is even more op? How could that happen? ^^

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sidtherat написал:

tanking ray of death shouldnt be possible!

See this is where you lost all of the people advocating BV+VP+CI in it's current state is fine.

Because people think that there should exist a build that can facetank/faceroll the hardest content in the game because that is what we had in the past.
GGG is clearly making progress into stating this is not the case and now we have players who advocate instant leeching 10k+ es is fine, and complaining 7k life archers with good damage output is not fine also (taken from a different thread but you get the gist).

CI and VP was nerfed before because it was the best way to build a character, we are in a state of game where that is rather true again. I messed around on standard the other day and did a respec of a templar into a Vortex (cold one, not blade) caster for fun and ended up with a 12k ES pool, using a 601 ES regalia.
In fact that character still has room to gain more ES:


And after I count all that it comes down to a possible of another 600 es to get, at a current rate of 1 flat energy shield giving me 5.5 ES means that the build can reach 15k ES.
And that is not even counting the fact the character is level 83 and can pick up more ES on the tree / via jewels.

Remove vaal pact ,nerf ghoust reaver ....really? Maybe it would balance BV/PF but destroy so many another LL/CI builds not so powerful ,not so tankly(that really improve build diversity). I think you guys blinded a little bit by power of BV and Pathfinder.

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SerenaDrake написал:

Remove vaal pact ,nerf ghoust reaver ....really? Maybe it would balance BV/PF but destroy so many another LL/CI builds not so powerful ,not so tankly(that really improve build diversity). I think you guys blinded a little bit by power of BV and Pathfinder.

I agree.

I run a crappy little cwdt caster that's dependent on vp and cloaked in savagery and though it might be in the same category as bv/pathfinder but will never be able to do those things and it would make zero sense to destroy a build like that just to get to bv.

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SerenaDrake написал:

Remove vaal pact ,nerf ghoust reaver ....really? Maybe it would balance BV/PF but destroy so many another LL/CI builds not so powerful ,not so tankly(that really improve build diversity). I think you guys blinded a little bit by power of BV and Pathfinder.

Both would be too much, but having both at the moment there is zero downsides to taking them.
Either moving Vaal Pact somewhere where ES users need to travel more (so that it's more of a meaningful choice in your build rather than just being there near shadow) or nerfing it's utility with ES (%less energy shield leeched) or giving it a ES penalty (%less energy shield) would be a good step.

Remember that back in the day to reach Vaal Pact people spent 15 points and still did it because of how strong with CI it was. People used to also spend 10+ points to get US to fix getting stunlocked, something which today you have multiple options to get.

No reason to nerf Ghost Reaver imo, it's fine as it is.

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I agree.

I run a crappy little cwdt caster that's dependent on vp and cloaked in savagery and it might be in the same category as bv/pathfinder but will never be able to do those things and it would make zero sense to destroy a build like that just to get to bv.

Vaal Pact is a lot more sensible on a life build, because you can't reach astronomical life numbers. On a ES character it simply shifts the whole gameplay to "unless I get 1 shot through my 10k+ ES im fine".

Remove instant leech (any form) but change reflect to DoT (damage over time) and balance bosses around that

Bladevortex got no downsides (high dps, you can leech, high number of crit/hits and even doing damage while moving is absurd)

You don´t need much skill to kill anything and that´s sad. On the other hand try to play 1h cleave or other melee skill and compare it.

But that´s not only BV ... well their balance is f.e. sunder gets 8% more dmg while BV (alrdy superior skill) 70% more ... nn to say more

Lets say 1H BV (dps/range) should be between 1h and 2h cycloner or smth like that and maybe without crit or with low cri chance.

I was hoping for better balance in the recent 2.4 patch but nothing has rly changed ...:(

vaal pact is exclusively the issue here.


pretty much every other issue here would be neutralized if vp was removed



vessel having too much leech? neutralized by implicit leech cap in the game
Berzerker leech? same deal
High es builds dominating meta because all they need is vp es and a leech source when ggg pretty much bold fucking face said they didnt want that play style in the game? falls apart without vp
pathfinder face tanking shit because bv provides infinite charges? again would not matter if the potions didnt allow you to leech your full hp pool every quarter second.


VP sucking in lab and people complaining like little bitches about it? come on it is even in the same sentence.


VP is the definitive issue here. Stop looking at path finder , stop looking at vessel , stop looking at the flasks , stop looking at the high dps es builds

the bottom line is that all of that is an issue ONLY when you use them with vaal pact. VP is the common denominator in all cases.. simple logic dictates then that maybe just maybe it is the problem.

remove vaal pact and those stupid high dps builds will one shot themselves on reflect LIKE THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO .. i laugh at the people who complain about this if vp is removed . youre supposed to fucking die .. you do more damage than you can take , that is not some sort of eldritch concept its elementary school math.. take the hint already.


remove vaal pact and vessel simply becomes a reliable source of good but not op single target leech .. because of the leech cap.

hell remove vp and maybe ggg can start balancing around something other than one shot game play .. wouldn’t that be refreshing for once

How dramatically all started by BV/PF and what we see now REMOVE VP ,so what next??

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SerenaDrake написал:

How dramatically all started by BV/PF and what we see now REMOVE VP ,so what next??

Lets clear one thing up , people have been complaining about VP since long before BV was a twinkle and some developer eye.


All BV is.. is a perfectly packaged example of why the mechanic is flawed and needs to die . nothing more and nothing less.

I think there's one thing here we can all agree on.

Blade Vortex is overtuned due to its very large number of hits per second when stacked and its lack of reliance on weapon damage.
Pathfinder is overtuned because unique flasks are very powerful and Pathfinder focuses on the sustainability of flasks.
Vaal Pact makes sustaining through a fight very easy if you hit a lot and do a lot of damage.

Combine all three of these things, mix well, bake for half an hour at 400 degrees, and voila, a deliciously overpowered cake.