How we can make divination cards farmable and don't hurm economy.

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Jgizle написал:

@Goetzjam

By your logic all yellow maps should be less rewarding. Your logic is easy content should be less rewarding because it is easy. All yellow maps are easy. Red maps are the only hard content in this game other than Uber Lab which is not that difficult either yet is the most rewarding content in the game.

Just because something is easy doesnt mean it should not be rewarding or should be less rewarding than content that is harder. You get guaranteed legendary items in D3 whether you are playing on normal or the hardest difficulty in torment. If you complete a rift (D3 version of maps) you are guaranteed a legendaey. If you do a greater rift you are guaranteed a legendary. If you do bounties you are guaranteed a legendary. It doesnt't matter how easy the content is, no matter what your time spent is always rewarded. Everything in D3 is deterministic farming. You can pick any activity and you are guaranteed to be rewarded. You can even use blood shards from rifts to trade kadala for guaranteed legendary items of a specific type.

POE marketed divination cards as being deterministic. Meaning I can go out of my way, invest a short period of time, and be rewarded for wasting time doing that instead of progressing my character. For POE that short period can not be a day. I understand that because nartering exists. Months or more however is completely ridiculous. The easy to get ones are the most used ones and some of the easy to get ones are even worth a lot. The 5 link related ones for example. Those are so easy to get that they devalue 5 link unique items.

I am not asking for these high value uniques to drop that often. I am asking for at least 25% of the drop rate those common divination cards have.

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goetzjam написал:

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Jgizle написал:

@Goetzjam

By your logic all yellow maps should be less rewarding. Your logic is easy content should be less rewarding because it is easy. All yellow maps are easy. Red maps are the only hard content in this game other than Uber Lab which is not that difficult either yet is the most rewarding content in the game.

Just because something is easy doesnt mean it should not be rewarding or should be less rewarding than content that is harder. You get guaranteed legendary items in D3 whether you are playing on normal or the hardest difficulty in torment. If you complete a rift (D3 version of maps) you are guaranteed a legendaey. If you do a greater rift you are guaranteed a legendary. If you do bounties you are guaranteed a legendary. It doesnt't matter how easy the content is, no matter what your time spent is always rewarded. Everything in D3 is deterministic farming. You can pick any activity and you are guaranteed to be rewarded. You can even use blood shards from rifts to trade kadala for guaranteed legendary items of a specific type.

POE marketed divination cards as being deterministic. Meaning I can go out of my way, invest a short period of time, and be rewarded for wasting time doing that instead of progressing my character. For POE that short period can not be a day. I understand that because nartering exists. Months or more however is completely ridiculous. The easy to get ones are the most used ones and some of the easy to get ones are even worth a lot. The 5 link related ones for example. Those are so easy to get that they devalue 5 link unique items.

I am not asking for these high value uniques to drop that often. I am asking for at least 25% of the drop rate those common divination cards have.

Which is the case, yellow maps are less rewarding to do in almost all circumstances. Just like white maps are less rewarding then yellow maps to do.

With higher level maps you get better rolled items, chance at ilevel restricted uniques, ect.


Actually it does mean that, more challenging or harder to access or maintain content should be more rewarding for various reasons. One, if you don't feel its worth investing highly into a map, then its less of a sink for one. For another if you are doing more challenging content, it needs to be more rewarding, because rarely in life do people do the more challenging thing, unless it comes with additional reward.

That isn't to say that yellow maps or white maps shouldn't provide rewards, they absolutely should and do, but the best way to get "everything", progression in items, currency, ect should be red maps.


The fact you even mention d3 here goes to show how skewed your view is on this situation. Poe is a vastly different game then D3. D3 gives away everything and doesn't care what activity you do. Poe is much different, due to currency, trade, "player interaction", economy, build diversity, ect ect. D3 doesn't have to care about many of these factors because it removed the ability to trade (yes 2 hour party window or whatever bullshit doesnt count) and removed basically all purpose of items in ARPG games, because of the never ending leveling progression with paragons. Eventually, which is actually quite quick, you will reach a level of gear where the only improvements is neverending ancient augments and paragon levels, you won't be able to or need to replace gear.


Where do you get the idea of short period of time. Has this game ever indicated that you could get rewarded with pretty much anything in a short period of time. Deterministic doesn't mean quick it just means there is a tied reward to doing something, however given the game we are playing they aren't going to give you a piece to the puzzle everytime you do something, similar to d3.

Lets say they did though. Lets say it took 1000 brittle emperors in order to get a volls devotion, would that solve the problem for you? Well probably not because you don't know how you get them. Maybe put a flat 50% chance to get a card, either you do or don't but on average it took 2 tries to get 1 card. Of course this is just an example the actual numbers would be different. Then it takes you about 2000 runs to get a volls devotion, do you think that is a good amount of time spent? Probably not. Do you get a special feeling when you find one, probably not. Would it allow you to see your progression better, probably, but with it taking that many runs is it going to be worth your time doing that over actually just playing the game and trading. Probably not either. See there isn't a really sweet balance, either the number of cards would have to be significantly higher to get an item, in which case finding them feels less special or the system would have to be more set, in which case you lose incentive into the grind because you know that you only get one card out of 250 runs and you just got a card. GGG discussed div cards in details in previous q\a and I'm sure in the closed beta forums, but I don't have those things bookmarked or anything.




How do 5 link ones devalue 5 link unqiue items? You are missing a supporting argument here.

Last I can recall they did actually increase the div card drop rate when they increased the drop rate of unique items by 4x. Plus diviners strong boxes, pretty much give a lot more out as well.

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Docbp87 написал:

Look at what happened to Kaom's Heart earlier in the league when you could get "divination cards from the current area" on boxes... Kaom's CRASHED in value. That is a PERFECT example of what increasing the availability of cards for rare/valuable items does. I for one enjoy the rarest items in the game having a high value (not that anything, aside from Skyforth, really has massive value these days)... If you want a game where you can get every item for your build, with a little time invested, go play Diablo 3... Hell, you get a full set just for reaching max level or whatever these days!

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YourDeathHere написал:

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Docbp87 написал:

Look at what happened to Kaom's Heart earlier in the league when you could get "divination cards from the current area" on boxes... Kaom's CRASHED in value. That is a PERFECT example of what increasing the availability of cards for rare/valuable items does. I for one enjoy the rarest items in the game having a high value (not that anything, aside from Skyforth, really has massive value these days)... If you want a game where you can get every item for your build, with a little time invested, go play Diablo 3... Hell, you get a full set just for reaching max level or whatever these days!

And again we come back to thesis that NOT EVERYONE WILL HAVE INCREASED DROP RATES, but few, who bought proper gear.

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Docbp87 написал:

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YourDeathHere написал:

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Docbp87 написал:

Look at what happened to Kaom's Heart earlier in the league when you could get "divination cards from the current area" on boxes... Kaom's CRASHED in value. That is a PERFECT example of what increasing the availability of cards for rare/valuable items does. I for one enjoy the rarest items in the game having a high value (not that anything, aside from Skyforth, really has massive value these days)... If you want a game where you can get every item for your build, with a little time invested, go play Diablo 3... Hell, you get a full set just for reaching max level or whatever these days!

And again we come back to thesis that NOT EVERYONE WILL HAVE INCREASED DROP RATES, but few, who bought proper gear.

You mean IIQ gear? IIQ gear already affects div card drop rates. Obviously if you have like 10 IIQ, you aren't going to notice anything...

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I_NO написал:

The div cards drop is shitty because they want you to trade them basically. In short

MUH ECONOMY

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gathor написал:

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I_NO написал:

The div cards drop is shitty because they want you to trade them basically. In short

MUH ECONOMY

Fuck, the day one thinks that I_NO hit the nail on the head...
You can talk for hours on div cards, make suggestions, solutions, ideas etc. In the end it won't change a thing. Trading is the most important part of PoE for GGG and for some it was clear from the start, from the very beginning they introduced the cards. Some still think that GGG introduced the cards so you can reliably farm the uniques you need, rofl.

ECOMONAH!

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YourDeathHere написал:

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Docbp87 написал:

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YourDeathHere написал:

And again we come back to thesis that NOT EVERYONE WILL HAVE INCREASED DROP RATES, but few, who bought proper gear.

You mean IIQ gear? IIQ gear already affects div card drop rates. Obviously if you have like 10 IIQ, you aren't going to notice anything...

Are u read the thread? Do it and u'll know what i mean.

i was 200 + 200 quantity and did not saw difference that would force neither me, neither some other player to start spending time on farming divination cards cos at current state it's waste of time even with 400%+ quantity bonus.

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The problem is your sample size. You mention ONE run of putrid cloister that Ziggy did. He didn't get anything that great. ON ONE RUN. You talk about doing TEN runs of Shavronne in Merciless Harvest. TEN? Do 1,000 and tell me your results. That MIGHT be enough to mean something. Then do 1,000 runs of Shavronne in Core, and 1,000 runs of Shavronne in Scriptorium. Then you actually can have something to say about the drop rate of The Offering.

Magic find in this game is about the volume of rares you get, for chaos recipe, or for generating alts/alchs, not getting a crazy number of tier 1 drops. If that was the case, you would see more people playing Magic Finders.

I'm sure you're just gonna ask me "DO YOU READ EVEN THREAD?" or some non-sense like that though, so it is pointless to even argue with you.