How we can make divination cards farmable and don't hurm economy.

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goetzjam написал:

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allbusiness написал:

GGG has designed the game in a way that is highly conducive to RMT, and almost borderline encourages it. PoE has more in common with korean grinders than ARPGs at this point, which is sad to say. Diviniation cards is just one of the many aspects of that 'grinder' aspect to it.


RMTing used to be rampant in WoW, it has been significantly reduced along with the number of bots in the game. Why? Because Blizzard stopped catering the game to people who no life to death and realized that the #1 priority should be whether or not your customers are having fun or not.

Any game that allows for trade will always be quicker or easier to RMT then it would otherwise be. There simply is no way to design a game around trading that discourages RMT.

Poe has far less to do with korean grinders, again you seem to love making shit up, so I'll be the one to call you out on it.



Funny you mention wow, a game that has lasted for a long time but pretty much completely alienated the original playerbase of the game in order to make the game more appealing to casual players. Wow, Poe and many other games only get to the point to appeal to casual players off the back of players that are more dedicated to playing and supporting the game, yet once they start seeing money from massive stash tab bundles or additional subscriptions, they forget about the playerbase which enabled the game to reach to the point where they are.

The game was in ways more fun pre 2.0, pre "easy access", back when keystones and stretching the key mattered, back when jewels didn't just create this massive power creep, back when people "struggled" to do the very top end content, not only because it was rare, but because it required a well designed and invested character.


Is this game still fun, for a while yes, not nearly the time it used to be, not nearly in the same way. Perhaps it is just somewhat nostalgic or whatever, but the fact of the matter is that even diamond supporters are completely alienated by the changes to the game.

GGG seems to care about the casual player and their options and feelings far more then they care about "whales" or long time players of the game. Unfortunately, there isn't another ARPG out there that competes with POE. Some say games like grim dawn, d3, marvel heros or what have you can in some ways, but not in the ways that actually have depth and real meaning.


So "hardcore" aka no life as many people like to call people that can and do play as much as me gets bored faster in a league, gets robbed of the longevity of the experience because they are catering to the aspects of players like yourself.


Without consideration for players at the top, where does it stop, where does the line get drawn in order to say this is the level in which we want players to essentially stop playing. For lots of people that is level 90, some its level 94, some its far less. It may take a whole league for some people to reach that, but that is achievable in a week or less for others.

Seeing how the leagues last 3 months, one would think the bar should indicate that players should be reaching this line 1 month in as "no life" 2 months in as inbetween and in the 3rd month players like yourself might reach it.

IF this game was designed for the extremes, similar to another game I play dota 2. It balances around the top players, because its impossible to cater a competitive environment to "all" Perhaps this is GGG saying we don't care about the ladder anymore, perhaps its GGG saying we don't care about long time players of this game, if that is the case, I wish they would just come out and say it so I can move on, if not I'm stuck here wondering if they are going to make a change that would push me away from this game or if they are ever going to try to recover from the changes they did in the past. 2.5 might not be the patch that kills the game for me, but I actually have high expectation that 3.0 might.

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goetzjam написал:

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YourDeathHere написал:

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Jgizle написал:

Maybe a new affix or suffix that gives "increased divination card quantity". It would increase the drop rate of divination cards specifically by a % and could be combined with Item Quantity MF gear to increase rhe chances that an item dropped will be a currency drop and thus a divination card. Combined they would make divination cards more realistically farmable while adding a currency sink to obtaining that goal.

I thought about that, but it's will be avaiable for everyone which will totaly affect current economy, which GGG doesn't want, that's why i prefer special unique items that will rare enought to people price it as quantity gear or maybe they could use this roll on magic/rare items and then make it legacy so it will cost as many as quantity gear.

GGG specifically didn't want to add an item for div card farming. Last I can recall the stack deck and something else was a supporter "unique" because of that very reasoning.


Another thing is if they make it easier to get div cards in anyway it devalues and unique that can be gotten from a div card, obviously that is an issue. Perhaps if they buffed the droprate of div cards and removed the ability to trade for them and the items, it could work, but I don't personally like the idea and i very seriously doubt that GGG would do it either.

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Reinhart написал:

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YourDeathHere написал:

It's most popular ARPG because of lack of choise, people don't liked what happened with diablo so they went into PoE and PoE have a lot of problems. (Ofcourse generally it's good, gameplay is awesome, but u need a lot of currency to actually see that gameplay and THIS is where a problem lays)
If u need currency to play good build u will trade ALL the time instead of playing, cos now it's the only good way to get currency if u cannot farm Uber or Shaper. GGG need to add more options to farm big currency (like trade can give u starting from 1 and to more exalteds a day) because it game, not a marketplace.

That aint true. You can do a lot of stuff in PoE on a small budget. Every temp league people proof time and again that they can face most content solo self-found.

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Jgizle написал:

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Reinhart написал:

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YourDeathHere написал:

It's most popular ARPG because of lack of choise, people don't liked what happened with diablo so they went into PoE and PoE have a lot of problems. (Ofcourse generally it's good, gameplay is awesome, but u need a lot of currency to actually see that gameplay and THIS is where a problem lays)
If u need currency to play good build u will trade ALL the time instead of playing, cos now it's the only good way to get currency if u cannot farm Uber or Shaper. GGG need to add more options to farm big currency (like trade can give u starting from 1 and to more exalteds a day) because it game, not a marketplace.

That aint true. You can do a lot of stuff in PoE on a small budget. Every temp league people proof time and again that they can face most content solo self-found.

I cant describe how many temp leagues i have played with flame totems.... its one of the easiest least gear requiring builds in the game (in that it doesnt have any gear requirements to work well). Not to mention totem builds are great for MF builds as your gear doesn't matter for dps and you dont really need to build for survivability as totems are the main focus of enemy attacks. Now that we have warchief totems they are even better.

You dont need any money at all to make money easily and do end game content. Totem builds can do uber lab and shaper as all you have to focus on is moving while totems do the work.

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IceFrog does not make changes solely on competitive players, it's the reason why DotA has lasted as long as it has.

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"allbusiness"


A. PoE has plenty in common with Korean Grinders, particularly the time wasting aspect for no apparent reason other than to artificially inflate the longevity of the game.

B. Trading can be minimized by just making it so that it's easier to find items in game, thus minimizing RMT in general. When you gate people out of content, that is when people resort to RMT. #1 rule in MMOs.

C. DotA 2 is not exclusively balanced around competitive environments. I know this becuase I used to work extensively with IceFrog in DotA 1 and his philosophy was that his balance was centered around ensuring players had fun first. 6.27 was a perfect example of this, where the game was relatively balanced with lots of pocket pushes able to beat Medusa centric strategies, however the game was simply not fun to play at all levels. Otherwise IceFrog would only nerf things, and not buff things out of the stratosphere.

D. The hardcore population make up less than 1% of your population. Catering only to them is the dumbest thing possible. People don't realize this, but IceFrog does not make changes solely on competitive players, it's the reason why DotA has lasted as long as it has.

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That's the reason why every game last as long as it is, u can't just center game on hc players, it will not give ur game such population, i thought it is an obvious thing...

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D2 still has a decent amount of players to this day and its far grinder, far less rewarding and has far more flaws then PoE did about 2 years ago, so to say this game needs to be less grindy, more rewarding and cater to the casual player when D2 did not do any of these is just ignoran

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Having massive players isn't necessarily a benefit in a game like this, having players that are happy and invested into the game is, if you alienate the players that enabled you to get this far, then what exactly are you accomplishing?

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YourDeathHere написал:

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D2 still has a decent amount of players to this day and its far grinder, far less rewarding and has far more flaws then PoE did about 2 years ago, so to say this game needs to be less grindy, more rewarding and cater to the casual player when D2 did not do any of these is just ignoran

So u just said that game should bring only pain to player? U know there are few types of players, some love pain (as obviously u do), so love enjoy game, u, again, super subjective about things and objective thing is that U MUST be allowed to farm things u want in GRIND game.

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Having massive players isn't necessarily a benefit in a game like this, having players that are happy and invested into the game is, if you alienate the players that enabled you to get this far, then what exactly are you accomplishing?

OK, let's pretend you are right and for developers is better when community not large, but happy, but many people AREN'T HAPPY, that's why we have so hot discussion in this thread and other threads, cos people DO CARE and this mean that game have REAL PROBLEMS and it's not just complains from whiny players.

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goetzjam написал:

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YourDeathHere написал:

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D2 still has a decent amount of players to this day and its far grinder, far less rewarding and has far more flaws then PoE did about 2 years ago, so to say this game needs to be less grindy, more rewarding and cater to the casual player when D2 did not do any of these is just ignoran

So u just said that game should bring only pain to player? U know there are few types of players, some love pain (as obviously u do), so love enjoy game, u, again, super subjective about things and objective thing is that U MUST be allowed to farm things u want in GRIND game.

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Having massive players isn't necessarily a benefit in a game like this, having players that are happy and invested into the game is, if you alienate the players that enabled you to get this far, then what exactly are you accomplishing?

OK, let's pretend you are right and for developers is better when community not large, but happy, but many people AREN'T HAPPY, that's why we have so hot discussion in this thread and other threads, cos people DO CARE and this mean that game have REAL PROBLEMS and it's not just complains from whiny players.

You are literally putting words in my mouth, when did I ever say that?



No its mainly just complaints from whinny players and its mainly just complaints from inexperienced players. Its whinny players that have somehow convinced GGG that this game needs to appeal to a casual market, its whinny players that got the drop rate of uniques buffed significantly, its whinny players that have convinced GGG to do most of the bad changes they have done.


The real problems are whinny players like yourself and the shortsighted views you have. Long term players like myself care far more about long term gain\sustain then someone like you that just wants the shortcut to the end.

Stupid easy accesses to gear in an ARPG is a failure in every way, it fails in d3, it fails in poe and it will fail in any ARPG or loot based game.

You care only about yourself and nothing about the longevity of the game, that is my issue with players like yourself. Too ignorant to see past your own desires.

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its mainly just complaints from inexperienced players

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Stupid easy accesses to gear in an ARPG is a failure in every way, it fails in d3, it fails in poe and it will fail in any ARPG or loot based game.

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YourDeathHere написал:

I covered all problems that might appear if GGG will make what i've suggested and you just speaking about how hard game should be, if you want to play hard game - go play boshi, this is ONLINE game for MANY DIFFERENT people, u just being selfish, malachai will not love you for sure!